Amateur historian in Dayton, Ohio needs horse expertise! - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 09-01-2013, 11:24 PM Thread Starter
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Smile Amateur historian in Dayton, Ohio needs horse expertise!

Hi Folks,

I'm doing some research on an individual named William M. Wolf who lived during the first half of the 20th Century in Dayton, Ohio. He was a canal boat owner and later a horse dealer. I've found two old photos of his businesses with horses pictured in them, but the clearer one is found below and is dated 1898. I know absolutely nothing about horses, but noticed the ears that are pointed backwards, and the coat is light in color.

Any idea what kind of horses these are?

http://content.daytonmetrolibrary.or.../id/100/rec/21

Probably a stretch, but if anyone lives near Dayton, Ohio, I would love to show you a stable the same guy built in 1921 which survives today at 341 South Jefferson St. It has some unique features and I am hoping someone can explain why it was built the way it is.

Thanks for your interest and help!

Last edited by tstan; 09-01-2013 at 11:27 PM.
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post #2 of 20 Old 09-01-2013, 11:33 PM
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Not sure on the breed of horses. But...their ears are pointing back because they are listening to their handler. Horses ears and swivle back and they can even "pin" them to their neck (when they are ticked off) In that picture they are just back, listening to what the handler is going to tell them to do.

they are also Grey in color.

the barn sounds very cool. Do you have any pictures of it?
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post #3 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
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Oh, that's interesting about the ears.

You can view the building on Google Maps. Type in this address:

341 South Jefferson Street, Dayton, Ohio.

A few interesting things about it: There are two ramps, one on the North and South sides, connecting the two floors. There is a barn-like structure on the second floor in the back. The South half of the building has enormous pillars. There are also two elevators at the East and Western sides. One carried people. The other is big enough to move cars (and did in the 1960s). The building sits at the former intersection of Jefferson street and a canal (now Patterson Blvd). The builder in the photo originally had a canal boat but then switched to selling horses and this building was used for that purpose as well as a warehouse, originally in use by American Railway Express, but later a bunch of other companies.
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post #4 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 12:40 AM
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Honestly those look like Lippizanners to me, or Irish Draughts. Claporte is correct, those are not angry- horse ears. The one in the back even looks to have them out sideways, which is saying that he or she is relaxed. But yes, probably some sort of draft cross :)
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post #5 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 12:45 AM Thread Starter
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I forgot there is a video of the interior where you can see the large pillars on the first floor (painted red), and the two ramps and barn-like room, viewed from the second floor. Not a great view of things, but the best I've got at the moment.

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post #6 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Oliveren15 View Post
Honestly those look like Lippizanners to me, or Irish Draughts. Claporte is correct, those are not angry- horse ears. The one in the back even looks to have them out sideways, which is saying that he or she is relaxed. But yes, probably some sort of draft cross :)
In the other available photo the pictured horse has the same color of coat. Since they all seem to have the same coloring does that make it more likely a Lippizanner? I only say that because when I look at images for that breed they appear more uniform in color than the Irish Draught. Again, I don't know anything about horses!
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post #7 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 01:05 AM
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Well a lot of Irish Draughts are born other colours and turn white as they age. Though Lipizzaners are the same way. I say that they are probably Draughts, because they were a common breed back then, and I suppose they would be better at pulling carts than Lipizanners. The Lipizzan horse is a Spanish breed. I will post pics of both. First is a Lippizan and the next is an Irish Draught. Personally I think its the latter. Also because of the large feet and shape of the face of the horses in the pic you posted.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Lipizzaner%202.jpg (31.7 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg woohooocats.jpg (3.5 KB, 54 views)

Last edited by Oliveren15; 09-02-2013 at 01:08 AM.
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post #8 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 02:24 AM
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Everything about the building says old factory. Not horse barn. Our building is an old singer sewing building and built incredibly similar. And all the studebaker buildings were also very similar.

Is it at all possible that it was a wagon, buggy, carriage shop? Or even implements?
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post #9 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 02:31 AM
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The building, to me, looks like an old factory/garage. I would assume for cars/carriages. I can't see where he would've kept his horses there. I don't see anywhere that the pillers (first or second level) would match up to stall sizes, even large stalls.

It reminds me of the car dealerships nowadays.

I'm also going to have to agree on Oliveren on the horses. I highly doubt they're Lipizzaners. Draughts are much more likely mostly because of price and availability.

But, that's just an uneducated opinion, I'm not well versed in history at this time. Eventually, but I don't have enough time to do what I need to get done, let alone time for much research, lol.
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post #10 of 20 Old 09-02-2013, 04:58 AM
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Any idea what kind of horses these are?
From what I remember of my Ohio history from growing up, when horses were used (instead of mules), Percherons were the breed of choice on the Ohio/Erie canals.
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