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Amateur historian in Dayton, Ohio needs horse expertise!

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        09-02-2013, 04:13 AM
      #11
    Weanling
    Hello, I just thought I would put in my 2 cents.

    I also highly doubt they were lippizaners.

    My guess would be an old variant of the Percheron breed or another similar draft. It is my understanding that many breeds have changed in appearance greatly in the past 200-100 years. (Which would explain why they are a bit "lighter" in stature than a modern day Percheron). That being said it would be logical for a draft horse of that time to be lighter than those of today because they would need to be used both as draft animals and also under saddle as it is was expensive to have multiple horses to fit different purposes. These horses have no feathering on their feet, so that rules out Shires or Clydesdale for the most part which are also common drafts. Also Percherons are commonly grey.

    You might all ready know this so please forgive me if I am stating the obvious but the photo looks like these are canal horses that were used to pull boats from paths along the water way. I know that they were much more common in Europe but I am not mistaken they were also used in Ohio quite a bit. Maybe you can see if there is a equestrian or canal museum that might have more information.
         
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        09-02-2013, 07:43 AM
      #12
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oliveren15    
    Honestly those look like Lippizanners to me, or Irish Draughts. Claporte is correct, those are not angry- horse ears. The one in the back even looks to have them out sideways, which is saying that he or she is relaxed. But yes, probably some sort of draft cross :)
    In 1898, how likely would it be to have Lippizaners in Ohio?

    They do look Draft cross to me, but, I'm unsure what. I'm almost sure they would be a cross breed of something, maybe many different things?

    The breed is impossible to tell unfortunately...
         
        09-02-2013, 08:11 AM
      #13
    Weanling
    [QUOTE=CLaPorte432;3525753]In 1898, how likely would it be to have Lippizaners in Ohio? QUOTE]

    I was just saying that it was how they looked to me. I went on to say that they were most likely Draught horses of some variety.
         
        09-02-2013, 09:29 AM
      #14
    Yearling
    That's a big old factory building there, that I presume has had a variety of uses in it's long life!

    You can use the interior of a building like that for pretty much anything with a bit of imagination, including stabling.

    I recall the riding stables in NY City right next to Central Park. The stables there are on the ground floor and basement, with a ramp (a steep ramp!) for the horses to get down and up. I think that it is an original building where wagons and horses have always been kept.

    The building in your video looks a little more industrial than that, but ore than capable of housing boats and horses.
         
        09-02-2013, 09:41 AM
      #15
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shropshirerosie    
    That's a big old factory building there, that I presume has had a variety of uses in it's long life!

    You can use the interior of a building like that for pretty much anything with a bit of imagination, including stabling.

    I recall the riding stables in NY City right next to Central Park. The stables there are on the ground floor and basement, with a ramp (a steep ramp!) for the horses to get down and up. I think that it is an original building where wagons and horses have always been kept.

    The building in your video looks a little more industrial than that, but ore than capable of housing boats and horses.
    Ah, it is good to have it confirmed the ramps could be used for horses!

    I know from city directories that the building was originally used as a sale stable from 1921-1925. It also shared space with a courier who used it as a warehouse. After that it was used mostly by automotive companies and delivery services. There is an elevator big enough that it moved cars up and down, and it was an original part of the building.

    On the second floor I am told it smells like horses on the left side near the barn-like room (my sense of smell is not very good). I take that to mean the horses were kept in that area, but have no way of knowing for sure.

    Any idea why they would be the barn-like room on the second floor and not the first floor?
         
        09-02-2013, 09:45 AM
      #16
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Roux    
    Hello, I just thought I would put in my 2 cents.

    I also highly doubt they were lippizaners.

    My guess would be an old variant of the Percheron breed or another similar draft. It is my understanding that many breeds have changed in appearance greatly in the past 200-100 years. (Which would explain why they are a bit "lighter" in stature than a modern day Percheron). That being said it would be logical for a draft horse of that time to be lighter than those of today because they would need to be used both as draft animals and also under saddle as it is was expensive to have multiple horses to fit different purposes. These horses have no feathering on their feet, so that rules out Shires or Clydesdale for the most part which are also common drafts. Also Percherons are commonly grey.

    You might all ready know this so please forgive me if I am stating the obvious but the photo looks like these are canal horses that were used to pull boats from paths along the water way. I know that they were much more common in Europe but I am not mistaken they were also used in Ohio quite a bit. Maybe you can see if there is a equestrian or canal museum that might have more information.
    Yes, I think those horses were used to pull the canal boat. Interestingly, the same type of horse appears in a later photo, dated 1913, when William Wolf shifted to selling horses.
         
        09-02-2013, 12:31 PM
      #17
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Oliveren15    
    Honestly those look like Lippizanners to me, or Irish Draughts. Claporte is correct, those are not angry- horse ears. The one in the back even looks to have them out sideways, which is saying that he or she is relaxed. But yes, probably some sort of draft cross :)
    They are more than likely Percherons. Or cross thereof.

    Lipizzaners were virtually unknown outside of Europe and were not present in the US until 1930's. The History and Origins of the Lipizzan Horse

    And horse in front has more what I would call irritated ears, and the one in back is probably agitating in some way, as the two are conversing, albeit silently.


    And there were many horses and mules used all over US for moving barges along the canals. Here is link to history on them. Lovely pictures.

    http://www.canals.org/siteimages/NSF_Building_Americas_Canals_Curriculum.pdf


    And another on the Erie Canal alone. Http://www.eriecanal.org/boats.html
         
        09-02-2013, 10:16 PM
      #18
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tstan    
    Ah, it is good to have it confirmed the ramps could be used for horses!

    I know from city directories that the building was originally used as a sale stable from 1921-1925. It also shared space with a courier who used it as a warehouse. After that it was used mostly by automotive companies and delivery services. There is an elevator big enough that it moved cars up and down, and it was an original part of the building.

    On the second floor I am told it smells like horses on the left side near the barn-like room (my sense of smell is not very good). I take that to mean the horses were kept in that area, but have no way of knowing for sure.

    Any idea why they would be the barn-like room on the second floor and not the first floor?
    My guess is that nothing was 'planned', rather they managed circumstances as best suited the day. If the lower floor was being used for boat building or whatever his trade was, then it makes sense to put the 'goods' which move themselves on the upstairs. Much easier to ask a horse to walk to bed, rather than carry a load of timber upstairs.

    Labour was cheap and plentiful back then I guess? So a boy or two tending the horses and mucking out the stables would not have costed much.
         
        09-02-2013, 11:15 PM
      #19
    Yearling
    I'm no help, but I've driven past that exact building a million times!
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        09-03-2013, 09:41 PM
      #20
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SEAmom    
    I'm no help, but I've driven past that exact building a million times!
    Posted via Mobile Device
    If anyone would like a tour of the building, I can arrange it! Especially someone who is familiar with housing horses
         

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