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post #21 of 37 Old 09-30-2013, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bsms View Post
The 40 times figure comes from a review of USCTA Accident Statistics for 1990 and 1991 (American Medical Equestrian Associaton).

"The place where most accidents occurred was on cross country. Cross country involves jumping fixed obstacles at speed. If a hors hits one of these obstacles, either the rider or horse and rider will fall. The second most common area was either stadium or other unspecified. Warmup areas for the jumping phases were the next most likely place for an injury. It comes as no surprise the jumping phases accounted for 86% of the injuries. Dressage accounted for only 1% and the stable area and other accounted for 12%, again indicating the surprisingly large number of unmounted injuries."

If one assumes twice as many events involving jumping, then the 86:1 ration of injuries would give about a 40 fold increase in injuries during jumping. The last time I looked for more current statistics, the report basically divided the injuries into during the jump and just before & after the jump. It had dropped the dressage phase, apparently from lack of injuries.

These are crude measures. There was another study that had:

A Cambridge University study of 1000 riding accident hospital admissions has shown:5

* One injury for 100 h of leisure riding
* One injury for 5 h for amateur racing over jumps
* One injury for 1 h of cross-country eventing

That would be a 20-fold increase, but those figures sound very high to me. You can find it referred here:

Spinal injuries resulting from horse riding accidents

I do think it is reasonably established that jumping involves significantly greater risk than riding the flat, and thus warrants safety steps like good instruction, use of helmet, etc.
The first study is for the sport of Eventing during competion before ASTM/SEI headgear was required, and not for someone learning to jump. I'm not sure it is fair to use a 23 year old report by the USCTA (which doesn't even exist anymore) of cross country, stadium and warm-up area numbers to warn a beginner about the serious risk of injury when jumping with outdated data.

The Cambridge study is from 2002 and has data from the late 90s.

Do you have anything with current data?
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post #22 of 37 Old 09-30-2013, 08:29 PM
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I stopped looking for current data a while back. While the data from 1991 may not involve helmets, it did involve an enormous split in where the falls were occurring - an 86:1 split. The more recent statistics I saw, as I mentioned, didn't even discuss riding on the flat.

I normally give the risk as increasing 10-40 fold. I think that is conservative, based on all I have seen. If you wish to track down more numbers and post them, feel free. I don't see where the numbers will change dramatically. Helmet use does reduce deaths and serious concussions, but won't suddenly turn a 20:1 ratio into something nearly equal.

There are also studies out there discussing riding style, and how the forward seat and jumping increase head injuries, compared to primarily back injuries for riding on the flat.

I don't jump, and my daughter doesn't want to, so I get limited payback for hours spent searching the web.

Also see:

The US Eventing folks have removed some of the articles I had previously bookmarked.

"Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing...well, ignore it mostly."
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post #23 of 37 Old 09-30-2013, 09:08 PM
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bsms - Again, that article is old. Dated 1999.

I'm not the one quoting statistics, you are.

So I am surprised you post "Jumping is a fairly dangerous equine sport, with risks going up 1,000-4,000%" (September 11) and you are not using the most up to date data you can find, but instead rely on statistics from reports from 1990, and since that time safety standards have improved drastically.
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post #24 of 37 Old 09-30-2013, 09:39 PM
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Safety has nothing to do with it... They are only recording how many falls in which sport.

Horses are scared of two things... Things that move and things that don't.
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post #25 of 37 Old 09-30-2013, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by updownrider View Post are not using the most up to date data you can find, but instead rely on statistics from reports from 1990, and since that time safety standards have improved drastically.
He did state that that was the most up-to-date that he could find. You're certainly welcome to do better.

But I would ask a question or two about those improved safety standards. First, don't we have a good start at a measure of risk just in the number of falls? After all, you aren't likely to get hurt if you don't fall off the darned horse in the first place. Second, requiring helmets reduces the number of head injuries, but what about broken arms, legs, & necks, and various internal injuries?

Then there's the (to my mind, anyway) even more important question of safety for the horse. Got any numbers for horses killed or injured in jumping?
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post #26 of 37 Old 10-01-2013, 03:15 AM Thread Starter
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LOL, i think jumping is not very dangerous, but u need to train alot, and i will train alot now, cause i dont wanna fall etc... and u can use other safety clothes not only the helmet
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post #27 of 37 Old 10-01-2013, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by updownrider View Post
Why ever would I grossly exaggerate? What would be the point?

You would be surprised at what some people can accomplish if they have excelled in other sports.

Doesn't matter what sport you've done, you're on the back of a horse and nothing is going to replace the hours you spend learning the basics- that is sheer ignorance and I would be seriously doubting the credibility of that instructor.

In all, it isn't my life or my horses in jeopardy; I suppose I should mind my own, huh?
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post #28 of 37 Old 10-02-2013, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Francisco Abreu View Post
I've had 8 riding lessons and wanted to know more or less when I start jumping. I'm not afraid of falling, I almost fell in the last class because the horse was stubborn! I still have many lessons to start jumping? thank you :P
It depends on your ability. An instructor isn't going to let you jump until he/she knows you can do it.

I've taken 16 lessons, one a week. Two lessons ago I started trotting over raised cavaletti to work on my balance and 2-point position. The lesson before last I cantered over raised cavaletti, and almost fell a couple of times. But my last lesson we trotted and cantered over low crossrails and did great.

You need a very strong lower leg, a good calf stretch down your ankles, and good balance on your 2-point. I suggest you do balance and calf and ankle stretching exercises at home. Put the balls of your feet on a step, about shoulder width apart, put your weight on your heels and lower them down. Make sure you can hold on to something for balance if you need to. Bend your knees as if you were on a horse. Get in 2-point all while keeping your heels down and find your balance. Practice doing this every day. It has helped me tremendously.

And be patient! It's better to learn something slowly but learn it right (and safely) than to jump head first and end up getting hurt
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post #29 of 37 Old 10-02-2013, 06:49 PM
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As many other members have mentioned, it will probably take awhile just to get a good foundation down. Then, you can build off that.

Please do not rush into it. It will take time, but it is going to be worth it in the end.
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post #30 of 37 Old 10-03-2013, 01:25 AM
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I think it is a legitimate question to ask about when you start jumping. If you are going to put your time and money into lessons, you want to know that you are progressing at a reasonable pace. However, learning to ride horses well is a lifetime pursuit, not something that is accomplished in a few rides, months, or even years. That said, there are some basics bench marks that I would expect should be completed before learning to jump. Here they are:

1-walk and trot with stirrups (both sitting and posting)
2-walk and trot without your stirrups (not always done because it is difficult, but most likely should be for safety and competence)
3- canter (both sitting and two-point)
4- ride a basic pattern (e.g. figure 8)

You may be able to stay on over the fence without the above exercises. However, I would recommend these exercises as a proficiency test for beginning jumping. If you can do them, you are ready to start jumping. If you can not do them you should focus on mastering them. Without these types of exercises, trying to jump could be like trying to play a piano recital without learning your scales first. Hope this helps!
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