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hmmmm..... not sure ??

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        06-26-2013, 01:13 AM
      #1
    Foal
    hmmmm..... not sure ??

    We got our 3 year old gelding back from a trainer on Sunday, he had a terrible rearing problem. Which the trainer said is fixed, keeping my fingers crossed that it is. Well my husband had to leave Sunday and got back home tonight. I've been spending a lot of time outside with him and our other horse. I'm trying to get over my fear of riding again. I've just been going out there and kind of hanging out with them, brushing them, running my hands all other them and talking to them ( no I'm not crazy...lol ! ) Our gelding follows me around almost the whole time I'm out there, and respects my space. He stops, goes and back up when I tell him to.Which before the trainer he could careless if I was out there with him and if he did follow me he had no respect for my space. Anyways to the point...already

    My husband went out there with me when he got home and we feed them. After they finished eating, we went back out to brush them. Everything was good for awhile, then every time my husband approached our gelding, he took off trotting like he was scared and came to me. He's never done this before. Normally if he was moving away from my husband, I was the last person he came to. I'm confused. Is this good or bad ? What should I do ? I don't want ruin him and waste his training.

    Our gelding was a rescue. We've had him 2 years now. My husband has always been more active his his riding. My husband green broke him, and me well I got him better. I fatted him up and doctored his wounds. My husband has always been fair but firm with him, he's never abused him. His trainers where both female. Any ideas ????
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        06-26-2013, 01:54 AM
      #2
    Super Moderator
    Personally, I'd not worry so much about it. How he behaves under saddle or on the leadline (when he's working) is more important that if he runs away from your husband. As long as he works for you husband, when asked to do so, and doesn't rear, the rest is gravy.
         
        06-26-2013, 09:16 AM
      #3
    Green Broke
    Wow. This story says a LOT.
    First of all, it sounds like your husband has his heart in the right place but he broke a young horse with (apparently) little experience. That is likely where the rearing problem started. I assume you are both very accomplished riders now because a 3 year old needs more training and riding by someone who is very accomplished.

    Next you indicate you are afraid of riding (bad fall from the rearing horse?).

    Third you just got the 3 year old back from the trainer.. rearing fixed...

    And last this 3 year old walks away from your husband who wants to brush him.

    Time for a reality check.

    1.) Horses are NOT PETS. They are LIVESTOCK. They behave like horses. They are not your friends and they are NOT PETS. They are NOT DOGS.

    2.) Rearing is an evasion. It is usually an evasion created by bad training, bad riding and a horse that cannot tolerate either thing. How did the trainer deal with the rearing? Who is going to ride this horse now? Who is the accomplished rider who can take a 3 year old and bring him along?

    3.) You are afraid. Whatever you do, the next time you ride do not ride your OWN horses. Go to a barn where they teach riding and take lessons.. on a calm horse in a controlled environment. If you can gain confidence then you may be ready to ride your own horses. If you ride the "reformed" rearer and you are afraid I can just about bet he will rear again. They know when you are afraid and feed off that. Horses are very much into flight when they are tense and upset.. because being upset is what they are when something is about to eat them.

    4.) If you or your husband wants to groom the horses, then put a halter and a lead on the horse you are grooming and tie him up and freaking groom him. Don't wait for the horse to walk away or anything. Have a plan to do a task then do it with purpose.

    Don't expect them to be like dogs.. where they come to you and wag their tails and welcome being groomed. They are not dogs. They are livestock. You and they will do MUCH better if you treat them like horses. If you want a devoted buddy.. a family member.. get a good dog.

    People talk about a "bond" with a horse. I have NO IDEA what that means. I have been around horses for years and while they do get to know you and you them.. and they do seem to become affectionate to you.. if one of them gets spooked they can and will kill you as quick as that. And not care after. That is how horses are. There is no Flicka. My Friend Fury was on TV. Mr Ed was on TV and the Black Stallion is fiction. This is not Disney.

    When you go out to work with the horses (and your fear), put a halter on the horse you are working with. Have a purpose. If the purpose is to clean the horse's feet, tie the horse up, and clean his feet. If the purpose is to untangle the horse's tail, then tie him up and do that. If you can separate the horse you are working with, do that and then work just with that horse.

    Going out and just hanging out with the horses like another herd member is NOT what you want to do.. it begs a dissolution of respect and hierarchy. It begs future injury to you.

    If you want to hang out around the horses, get a chair and sit OUTSIDE the fence and just watch them. Do not feed them treats or fiddle with them.

    Have a purpose. If you do not, you will end up hurt and forever wonder how your "friend" could hurt you. Well.. maybe because they are horses and that is how horses are.

    GOOD LUCK!!!
         
        06-26-2013, 09:36 AM
      #4
    Yearling
    ^^THIS should be REQUIRED reading when a person joins the HF!!!
    Elana, Boo Walker and Ponies like this.
         
        06-26-2013, 11:47 AM
      #5
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Elana    
    Wow. This story says a LOT.
    First of all, it sounds like your husband has his heart in the right place but he broke a young horse with (apparently) little experience. That is likely where the rearing problem started. I assume you are both very accomplished riders now because a 3 year old needs more training and riding by someone who is very accomplished.

    Next you indicate you are afraid of riding (bad fall from the rearing horse?).

    Third you just got the 3 year old back from the trainer.. rearing fixed...

    And last this 3 year old walks away from your husband who wants to brush him.

    Time for a reality check.

    1.) Horses are NOT PETS. They are LIVESTOCK. They behave like horses. They are not your friends and they are NOT PETS. They are NOT DOGS.

    2.) Rearing is an evasion. It is usually an evasion created by bad training, bad riding and a horse that cannot tolerate either thing. How did the trainer deal with the rearing? Who is going to ride this horse now? Who is the accomplished rider who can take a 3 year old and bring him along?

    3.) You are afraid. Whatever you do, the next time you ride do not ride your OWN horses. Go to a barn where they teach riding and take lessons.. on a calm horse in a controlled environment. If you can gain confidence then you may be ready to ride your own horses. If you ride the "reformed" rearer and you are afraid I can just about bet he will rear again. They know when you are afraid and feed off that. Horses are very much into flight when they are tense and upset.. because being upset is what they are when something is about to eat them.

    4.) If you or your husband wants to groom the horses, then put a halter and a lead on the horse you are grooming and tie him up and freaking groom him. Don't wait for the horse to walk away or anything. Have a plan to do a task then do it with purpose.

    Don't expect them to be like dogs.. where they come to you and wag their tails and welcome being groomed. They are not dogs. They are livestock. You and they will do MUCH better if you treat them like horses. If you want a devoted buddy.. a family member.. get a good dog.

    People talk about a "bond" with a horse. I have NO IDEA what that means. I have been around horses for years and while they do get to know you and you them.. and they do seem to become affectionate to you.. if one of them gets spooked they can and will kill you as quick as that. And not care after. That is how horses are. There is no Flicka. My Friend Fury was on TV. Mr Ed was on TV and the Black Stallion is fiction. This is not Disney.

    When you go out to work with the horses (and your fear), put a halter on the horse you are working with. Have a purpose. If the purpose is to clean the horse's feet, tie the horse up, and clean his feet. If the purpose is to untangle the horse's tail, then tie him up and do that. If you can separate the horse you are working with, do that and then work just with that horse.

    Going out and just hanging out with the horses like another herd member is NOT what you want to do.. it begs a dissolution of respect and hierarchy. It begs future injury to you.

    If you want to hang out around the horses, get a chair and sit OUTSIDE the fence and just watch them. Do not feed them treats or fiddle with them.

    Have a purpose. If you do not, you will end up hurt and forever wonder how your "friend" could hurt you. Well.. maybe because they are horses and that is how horses are.

    GOOD LUCK!!!

    My fear comes from a fall off another horse and from watching our gelding rear up. My husband experience with horses is w lot more than mine. He didn't do enough groundwork, even after I begged him. My husband now knows how important it actually is.

    Yes I know he's not a pet. Yes I've messed up by treating him like one. So how do treat him like a horse and not a dog ? I want to fix my mistake, before its too late.

    2.The first time he reared we hadn't had him long. He reared up and knocked his feed bucket out of my hand. I stood there and won't let him eat til I was ready. He never did it at feeding time again. All the other times have been due to us making him do something he didn't want to, it was never under saddle. He eventually reared under saddle. That's when he went to the trainer. He reared up 5 times over there. When he did they started spurring him and turning his head to the side. They said he only reared during the first week.

    3. The ladies that trained our gelding is going to start giving me riding lessons.
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        06-26-2013, 12:55 PM
      #6
    Green Broke
    Green horse + Green Rider = Bad Color combination.
    How to fix this? Well you won't like what I have to say.. and I will be kind. Remember first and foremost I have spent a LOT of time on horses and training horses. They are amazing creatures. They are beautiful creatures. The are dangerous creatures. Horses can kill you and not care.

    Quote:
    Yes I know he's not a pet. Yes I've messed up by treating him like one. So how do treat him like a horse and not a dog ? I want to fix my mistake, before its too late.
    It is too late with this 3 year old IMO. You are frightened. Really frightened and from the ground too. Fixing the mistakes are going to start with YOU. Your fear must be fixed.. and it almost sounds like you have some PTSD from this. IOW's I had horses rear and toss me off at the early stages of my horse experience and I was never afraid of them. I just brushed off and got on with it. Now I was not badly hurt and you may have been badly hurt.. so I am not saying your fear is unreasonable. Fear is NEVER unreasonable to the person experiencing it. However, if you are determined to ride and to ride competently then you need to get the fear past. It is something you may need counseling for to get yourself on the right path.

    The 3 year old learned he could resist and rear. They made him stop at the trainer.. but what happens back home the first time he is asked to do something that confuses him? He is going to evade that question somehow. Rearing. Bucking. Spinning. Balking. How is that going to be dealt with? More time at the trainer? More money? Certainly treats and love are not going to do it. SELL HIM. TRADE HIM. GIVE HIM AWAY.

    When you go out to your horses, have a purpose for going out there. If it is to feed them, then feed them. Be efficient. Don't talk to them. Just do it. No petting. No nothing. You just feed. If it is to groom them, then get the tools for that together and get a halter and lead. Take the horse you are going to groom out of the pasture and separate him into a paddock, tie him up and groom him. Won't tie? OK.. this is the first thing and you won't know how to fix that (part of the being green thing and we all were at one time). The horse just won if he won't tie. Your purpose got messed up. Put your grooming tools away, put the horse away and call someone and advertise the horse.

    A green handler needs a horse that will stand tied, will ride out, has been there and done that and has learned all the respect stuff. That horse will teach you so much.. and probably not scare you. You need a seasoned and trained older horse. Get a 15 year old retired lesson horse. Even with a seasoned horse you will make enough mistakes and you will learn. Best to learn with one that has seen it than to learn with one who is seeing it for the first time!

    This three year old horse is no different than a 3 year old cow. He is livestock. Maybe he has learned respect... but you have learned fear of him. Honestly.. go back to that trainer and find out if they can find a new place for him to live and let him go.

    Meanwhile, find a good solid lesson facility with older horses that are campaigners. Go to that very safe environment and get your lessons and.. after between counseling and the lessons you overcome your fear then go out and buy an older horse that is from a lesson program.

    I make these suggestions (and you still have free will so you can choose not take them and I won't be mad) in the interests of the 3 year old horse's future and your safety and well being.

    I know you rescued this horse with your heart. Lots to be said for that.. but he is more than you should have around.

    Now.. as to your behavior with your horses. First and foremost you need to view them differently. They have brains the size of walnuts and they have great capacity to remember. That is how we can train them. They also are large and not terribly bright and can kill you.

    Their instinct is to run away when challenged or scared.. and if they can't run they will fight. They will run over your, run with you on their back, run out in the road in front of trucks, run through fences and off cliffs. If you are a good enough rider to stop them, then they will fight. They will rear or buck or fall down or kick or strike.

    Training can fix this.. but training takes experience. You lack that experience (but you will get it if you stay in this game).

    Hanging out with your horses in their paddocks petting them is not training. It is becoming a herd member and that is not what you want. What you want is to be the boss of all.. not a herd buddy. So don't do that. Only go and work with your horse if you have a purpose to do so. Otherwise, go take a walk with your dog or do something else.

    Whatever you decide, remove the stuff Disney fills our heads with and STAY SAFE.

    Good Luck (again). And I do mean that.
         
        06-26-2013, 02:49 PM
      #7
    Started
    The world needs a law: one must be demonstrably qualified to own a horse, especially an untrained horse whom one wishes to train. The horses are the ones who suffer for lack of such a law.
         
        06-26-2013, 02:59 PM
      #8
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Northern    
    The world needs a law: one must be demonstrably qualified to own a horse, especially an untrained horse whom one wishes to train. The horses are the ones who suffer for lack of such a law.
    Wow.. There are too many laws now.That is whats wrong with today, make a law to fix to stupid is just moronic.
    People need to have common sense.
    If you don't know how to ride why in the world do you think you can train a horse? Let them get stomped. Maybe they will learn something.
    First time someone gets bit or kicked they usually learn how to prevent it.
    JenandJax likes this.
         
        06-26-2013, 03:13 PM
      #9
    Started
    Quote:
    Wow.. There are too many laws now.That is whats wrong with today, make a law to fix to stupid is just moronic.
    People need to have common sense.
    If you don't know how to ride why in the world do you think you can train a horse?
    why do they think they can train a horse? Um, cue Disney, and every other horse fiction out there, with magical bonds and horses that want to be ridden because they love their people so much, they can ride off into the sunset. Also factor in a society built on instant gratification, and the message to youth that "you can't fail if you just try". People are brainwashed into believing these things, its not their fault, its pretty hard to know any other way unless someone shows you, or you learn the hard way.

    Quote:
    Let them get stomped. Maybe they will learn something.
    First time someone gets bit or kicked they usually learn how to prevent it.
    nice. I suppose the best way to teach a toddler fire is hot is to let them fall in it? OP, get some help. Take some riding lessons, grab Clinton andersons groundwork DVD's and book. Start with ground work and gaining respect. Ideally, when you feel more confident, get a good trainer to help you work with your boy.
         
        06-26-2013, 03:14 PM
      #10
    Super Moderator
    I blame it on the youtube generation where idiots make films using dead broke horses and make it look like they're solving their problems and it all looks so easy and common sense flies straight out of the window.
    Well it isn't easy and lots of people do get hurt and the sooner everyone realizes that the better.
    I'm sorry OP but a 3 year old horse that has a rearing problem is not the sort of thing a nervous person should be riding - the problem might be solved for an experienced rider but your fear and lack of experience is already getting in the way of its future success.
    God only knows what sort of baggage these rescue horses carry with them and it can take years for mental scars to heal.
    If you're going to try to deal with this then follow Elana's advice re. How your husband handles the horse - it might take a while but eventually he'll stop seeing him as the enemy and as someone he relies on
    Get yourself some good lessons on a reliable horse but in the meantime the horse you have really should be getting worked by someone that can bring him on in the right way or he'll just regress.
         

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