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leading issues - mare trying to turn me around

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  • Horse tries to pass me when leading

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    09-12-2013, 03:08 PM
  #11
Weanling
You've gotten some very good advice!

My lease horse just moved to a new barn and gives everyone a hard time whenever we try to walk him around the property unless its toward his paddock.

What I've found to be the key is to be random. Stop randomly, turn around randomly, just make sure that they're never too sure where you're going to bring them. That forces them to pay attention to you rather than where they think they're going.

If I want to turn right and he wants to go left or he gets ahead of me, I twirl the end of the lead in front of him. If he keeps going forward, it's going to hit him in the nose; if he backs up to where he was in relation to me, the mean rope will leave him alone. He's older and knows all his ground manners, but likes to see if he can get away without them every now and then. ;)
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    09-12-2013, 09:29 PM
  #12
Yearling
Good advice ---- used a hog stick? It is about 30 inches and easier to carry in my hand than a lunge whip --- put it in the same hand I had the lead rope with the length of the stick behind me so when she tried to cut me off, I tapped her in the shoulder with it

Leading session turned into a lunging session (because when I tapped her with the hog stick she took off running and bucking) -- but it was a productive lunging session --- she stayed out of my space and didn't turn in unless I asked her to yield her hind quarters --- she is good about going clockwise -- no so good counter-clockwise

After a good 20 minutes of that we went back to the leading session --- I changed directions often and erratically and she followed

Thought I would finish it up with some backing up and by the end she was backing up with very little pressure for 3-4 steps at a time instead of the usual one maybe 2

You guys are awesome -- thanks for the great tips
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    09-12-2013, 09:55 PM
  #13
Started
Good advice already given here.

She is showing you that she is alpha mare, not you. Goal is to get her to respect you as alpha mare.

You need to push her away from you, like already suggested, with the end of your lead rope or a crop...whatever it takes. When you do it, you need to present the body language that you are in charge and mean it. You need to lean into her and move her. Don't step away from her, or you lost.

You are mimicking what horses do in the herd to gain hierarchy. Another horse would pin their ears, swish their tail and then bite or kick. Whichever horse moves away, loses.

However, also be firm, but fair. As soon as she moves away and does what she is supposed to do, no matter how small....at first....release the pressure. As she begins to understand, you can expect more and more.
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    09-12-2013, 10:36 PM
  #14
Showing
When leading a horse and it tries to pass you, it has shown you that it is now dominant. BUT, when you quickly switch direction, almost heading back the way you came, the horse is now behind you and now you're the dominant one. Keep walking, focus ahead, and unexpectedly switch again. Here is something to be mindful of. If you continue to walk without changing direction and the horse is now hanging behind, altho coming along, he thinks he is driving you away. Here's where it can get trickly - getting it to come alongside so his ears are at your shoulder, ie only his nose is ahead. This is neutral ground, a partnership and this is what you need to work toward.
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    09-12-2013, 11:32 PM
  #15
Green Broke
I think random really helps too. I stop and if my horse's nose moves in front of me I back her up and out of my space. If she keeps walking once I stop I tell her to pretty much get out of my space now and keep away from me.

Why are you walking her back and forth across a pasture? It's often good to get out of the pasture because that's their "home" or "rest" place, outside is work. I'd spend most of my time getting her moving from pressure rather than leading her around. Teach her to back up out of your space, yield her hind and fore. Then I'd start leading and when she goes to move into your space I'd push her right out of it with you'd taught her, once she was back to where she should be I'd continue on.

Slapping neck etc doesn't do much. An elbow out might work with a horse getting out of line but if your horse hasn't been taught then it's not going to help a lot. Horses work on pressure and release. If you're training the horse to back up and she puts her head in the air, if you release the pressure you're training her to do that. Teach her to lower her head, back her up with chest pressure and always stop immediately when you get what you want.

From what you're saying I'd be doing a lot of the real basics, like tossing a whip/rope over her in a passive way so she's not scared of it, touching her all over and again moving from pressure. Stuff like lunging comes later when she's comfortable will all the tools and understands forward/back etc.
     
    09-13-2013, 12:16 AM
  #16
Weanling
Saddlebag, I thought the horse should always walk with it's shoulder at your side? It should stop, walk, backup, etc with their shoulder at your side. I taught all the horses I've worked with this. Is that correct?
     
    09-13-2013, 12:47 AM
  #17
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera    
Saddlebag, I thought the horse should always walk with it's shoulder at your side? It should stop, walk, backup, etc with their shoulder at your side. I taught all the horses I've worked with this. Is that correct?
The only trouble with that is if the horse spooks or something they are right on top of you. I like mine to follow about 3 feet behind me off to the side. That way they aren't right on me and I can see them out of the corner of my eye.
You've gotten good advice. I would work on yielding front and hind quarters also. If you can get her to move both upon request, I think that will help with the other things.
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    09-13-2013, 05:20 AM
  #18
Foal
This is a respect issue you have been given good advice (the lunging issue is all related too)

What really helped me was to change my mind set. Make it a game of sorts, correct the behavior and "dare her to do it again"

I also used many of John O'leary's (youtube and website - horse problems australia) techniques in the beginning with my very dominate mare (behaved very simalar to yours 2 years ago) very old school trainer, not the best people skills, I don't like everything he teaches, but is all about helping horse owners. He has a lot of stuff online that's free to read and view if your interested.
     
    09-13-2013, 08:35 AM
  #19
Showing
My own experience with the horse's ears/jaw by my shoulder is the tell-tale ear signals are easily read. A genuine spook, something absolutely out of the blue, seldom happens, but the horse's mood may have it looking for an excuse to spook. It's ears immediately tell me which is a signal to divert it's attention. Having a horse walk behind and to the side doesn't allow for the same opportunity to observe. Bagheera, if you and your horses are good with shoulder walking then by all means continue. If a horse were to jump sideways, I think I'd rather get a knock on the head with his jaw than the full impact of it's body.
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    09-13-2013, 09:51 AM
  #20
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
When leading a horse and it tries to pass you, it has shown you that it is now dominant. BUT, when you quickly switch direction, almost heading back the way you came, the horse is now behind you and now you're the dominant one. Keep walking, focus ahead, and unexpectedly switch again. Here is something to be mindful of. If you continue to walk without changing direction and the horse is now hanging behind, altho coming along, he thinks he is driving you away. Here's where it can get trickly - getting it to come alongside so his ears are at your shoulder, ie only his nose is ahead. This is neutral ground, a partnership and this is what you need to work toward.
thank you -- I hadn't thought of that -- I definitely do not want a horse driving me from behind -- I can think of all sorts of problems that would lead to
     

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