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leading issues - mare trying to turn me around

This is a discussion on leading issues - mare trying to turn me around within the New to Horses forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

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        09-13-2013, 10:01 AM
      #21
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saskia    
    I think random really helps too. I stop and if my horse's nose moves in front of me I back her up and out of my space. If she keeps walking once I stop I tell her to pretty much get out of my space now and keep away from me.

    Why are you walking her back and forth across a pasture? It's often good to get out of the pasture because that's their "home" or "rest" place, outside is work. I'd spend most of my time getting her moving from pressure rather than leading her around. Teach her to back up out of your space, yield her hind and fore. Then I'd start leading and when she goes to move into your space I'd push her right out of it with you'd taught her, once she was back to where she should be I'd continue on.

    Slapping neck etc doesn't do much. An elbow out might work with a horse getting out of line but if your horse hasn't been taught then it's not going to help a lot. Horses work on pressure and release. If you're training the horse to back up and she puts her head in the air, if you release the pressure you're training her to do that. Teach her to lower her head, back her up with chest pressure and always stop immediately when you get what you want.

    From what you're saying I'd be doing a lot of the real basics, like tossing a whip/rope over her in a passive way so she's not scared of it, touching her all over and again moving from pressure. Stuff like lunging comes later when she's comfortable will all the tools and understands forward/back etc.
    thank you for the advice

    Right now I am walking her back and forth across the pasture because I do not have any designated places for work --- this will eventually be corrected -- hopefully with a round pen

    She is definitely not scared of whips or lead ropes and has been handled extensively --- except for getting her to give me her feet

    I definitely want the real basics with her --- I believe she was advanced to new tasks before mastering the primary tasks (someone got in a rush with her) --- it's not a mistake I want to repeat

    Leading seemed to me to be the first basic lesson so that is what I am trying to start with

    The only reason I was lunging her was because she took off running when I tapped her with the hog stick (no whacking or hitting -- just a tap-tap) -- so I figured lunging would get it out of her for a little bit and go back to what I wanted to work with her on

    After the lunging she was a little more compliant and was able to follow with very few issues despite changing directions often
         
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        09-13-2013, 10:19 AM
      #22
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aimz    
    this is a respect issue you have been given good advice (the lunging issue is all related too)

    What really helped me was to change my mind set. Make it a game of sorts, correct the behavior and "dare her to do it again"

    I also used many of John O'leary's (youtube and website - horse problems australia) techniques in the beginning with my very dominate mare (behaved very simalar to yours 2 years ago) very old school trainer, not the best people skills, I don't like everything he teaches, but is all about helping horse owners. He has a lot of stuff online that's free to read and view if your interested.

    I totally agree -- respect is an issue --- I only recently was able to teach the 3 horses in my pasture to stay out of my space while feeding them


    What do you mean by "dare her to do it again"? An example would be great


    I will look up John O'Leary today


    I have been researching as many training examples and techniques as I could --- people that use Clint Anderson, Think Like a Horse, Larry Trocha, eXhorses (www.extension.org/horses and they have a youtube channel) and I have a Pat Parelli dvd at home
         
        09-13-2013, 05:21 PM
      #23
    Foal
    The more techniques you learn the better IMO they will all help you to become a better trainer (every time anyone interacts with a horse they teach it something, good, bad or nutral)

    By daring her to do it again example:

    Leading and she try's walking over you, correct the behavior and go immediately back to your neutral leading postion. In your head dare you to make the same mistake again and immediately correct and go back to neural if she dose it again

    The daring is to stop you losing confidance, getting frustrated, bored, upset or whatever. As horses work off body language I found it really helped me stay calm relaxed and confident.

    Think about your body language when your dare someone to do something, is it typically passive Or rather dominating? Timid or confident? Angery or playful? I hope this makes sense it hard to explain via message

    Another example is a jig jogging horse, I hate it and don't allow my horse to do it, it's uncomfortable and stirs up other horses

    So I will back the horse up an till I get a nice soft back up (backed up over 100meters the first time) release the reins and dare the horse to jig jog again
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        09-13-2013, 06:14 PM
      #24
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aimz    
    The more techniques you learn the better IMO they will all help you to become a better trainer (every time anyone interacts with a horse they teach it something, good, bad or nutral)

    By daring her to do it again example:

    Leading and she try's walking over you, correct the behavior and go immediately back to your neutral leading postion. In your head dare you to make the same mistake again and immediately correct and go back to neural if she dose it again

    The daring is to stop you losing confidance, getting frustrated, bored, upset or whatever. As horses work off body language I found it really helped me stay calm relaxed and confident.

    Think about your body language when your dare someone to do something, is it typically passive Or rather dominating? Timid or confident? Angery or playful? I hope this makes sense it hard to explain via message

    Another example is a jig jogging horse, I hate it and don't allow my horse to do it, it's uncomfortable and stirs up other horses

    So I will back the horse up an till I get a nice soft back up (backed up over 100meters the first time) release the reins and dare the horse to jig jog again
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Thanks Aimz --- good insight

    I think I understand what you are saying
         
        09-13-2013, 10:34 PM
      #25
    Super Moderator
    Your horse should stay wherever you tell him whether its close to your shoulder or 5 feet behind. The distance is limited by your body language, backed up ( not first, but backed up by ) the tool you prefer , be it the lead line end. A stick , a whip, whatever.

    He should maintain slack in the line by never dragging far behind, but come no closer than you indicate by something as small and simple as a small upward motion of your leading hand. It.s when the small body language signals are not obeyed that pt you go to the tools and bigger stuff.

    As for being random in your change ups of direction, that's good but ALWAYS give a pre signal of any change. For example, when you are going to stop and back up, you lean your upper body backwards a second BEFORE you apply you brakes and start backing . Expect her to pay attention but not to read your mind. She can only read your body, so give something clear to go off of.
    Oldhorselady and jmike like this.
         
        09-14-2013, 11:02 AM
      #26
    Started
    Tiny is right....the horse should be respecting you no matter whether they are next to you are five feet behind. This comes in time, some faster than others. Your job is to keep the body language consistent. As others have said, being random is key too. Whenever I get a new horse, and we are learning that 'fine line' of who is in charge....when going from point A to point B would often change. Meaning....sometimes we would just walk from point A to point B, sometimes we would do a couple circles on our way from point A to point B, sometimes we would take a different route, go around a tree, stop and back up....whatever you want. The purpose is to teach them that they need to focus on you and to always be in the mindset of questioning what you are going to ask of them next.

    In the beginning, I would take trail walks with a whip....whatever type makes you the most coordinated with your horse. I have them walk shoulder to shoulder. If they start lagging behind, first they start to feel some tension in the lead line, then they hear me cluck and if they don't speed up they feel the swing of the whip string on their butt. I think it resembles the swish of my tail (me being the alpha horse). I never turn to face them. If they are too far back at that point for my whip to reach them, I will back up a few steps and try again. If they speed up, they first feel the tension in the lead line, then I say my verbal cue (mine is hey, hey, hey) and then if they still don't slow down, I swish the whip in front of their chest and we halt and they back up. Then, when I'm ready we go forward. Depending on the severity of their behavior at that point, I will yield their forequarters away from me, or back up more....just kind of depends on what is going on.

    One thing I also ALWAYS do...even nowadays when my horses have wonderful ground manners and listen very well, is make THEM move, not myself. Whether we are walking together, I'm mounting, I'm feeding them....whatever it is.....I make them move out of MY way, not the other way around. For example..if mounting and they move....I move them back to where they should be. I NEVER move the mounting block to meet them or follow them around if mounting from the ground. When going into their paddock with their bowls of feed....I make them move out of my way before I enter the paddock gate. They always keep their distance from me all the way to where I feed them. Sometimes I even play the game of not letting them think that as soon as their food goes down that they can have it....sometimes they have to wait a second until I have everything ready. These games are our regular routine and keeps me in the top pecking order with them.

    I hope I explained this ok for you and didn't ramble..lol. P.S. Horses should NOT be 'scared' of whips or any other equipment used. However, that does not mean that the equipment is not useful or doing it's job. It's all in how you use it.
    jmike likes this.
         

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