My First Loan - Has A Few Behavioural Probs :)
   

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My First Loan - Has A Few Behavioural Probs :)

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        07-29-2013, 04:04 PM
      #1
    Foal
    My First Loan - Has A Few Behavioural Probs :)

    Hey guys! I'm new to the forum, and am also new to loaning horses! I've been riding for many years and today tried out & agreed to loaning a 15'2 cob x, called Jazz. He is absolutely gorgeous, quite heavy weight so very comfy to ride!
    Issues: He has slipped into some habits such as dragging his head down to the floor constantly whilst been ridden - he chomps on the bit alot and seems to be trying to get his tongue over it. He's a strong boy, and I find it really hard (didnt have gloves on today silly me) to keep hold of the reins in that position when he is dragging his head right down to the floor! Is there any advice you guys can give me to help rectify this? :)
    Also, he is a bit of a spoilt beast and so does little mini rears (more like stamping really) when he doesnt want to do something ... he is a really nice natured horse and doesnt have a bad bone in him, he just seems to have been a bit spoilt and allowed to fall into some bad habits.
    Can anyone give me a hand please? :)
    Thankyou! Xxxx
         
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        07-29-2013, 05:22 PM
      #2
    Weanling
    With putting his head down, once he puts his head down and or starting to, pull straight up and kick him. Don't pull towards you, pull straight to the sky. And make sure you do this EVERY time. He might be wanting to roll with you on.

    I would first adjust the bit in it mouth, some horses like it higher in their mouth and some like it lower. My one horse had liked hers a bit lower in her mouth while my Thoroughbred likes it higher. If that doesn't work maybe try a bit that has a curb mouthpiece, as I am assuming you are using one with a broken? With nervous, green, or horses that are a bit more hyper I use a D-ring snaffle with rollers in it, but I also have a curb bit with a roller in it which helps.

    With the little rears, it really depends on the horse what you should do. I used to discipline my horse when she would mini-rear, but then my trainer said I should try just ignoring them and act like I didn't even realize she did it and that is what fixed it with mine. If you feel like they are going to rear, put your hand on the middle of the top of their neck, right around the crest and pinch it and push down firmly. There was a girl at a show and her horse kept full out rearing and I showed her that trick and her horse stopped rearing, and if she felt like it was going to rear again she would put her hand on its neck in that position and the horse would just settle down. It was cool to see. I do that to mine when they rear and it has never failed me, even the little rears. But make sure it isn't from a saddle that is pinching :)
    AmateurOwner likes this.
         
        07-29-2013, 06:04 PM
      #3
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thrill Ride    
    With putting his head down, once he puts his head down and or starting to, pull straight up and kick him. Don't pull towards you, pull straight to the sky. And make sure you do this EVERY time. He might be wanting to roll with you on.


    I would first adjust the bit in it mouth, some horses like it higher in their mouth and some like it lower. My one horse had liked hers a bit lower in her mouth while my Thoroughbred likes it higher. If that doesn't work maybe try a bit that has a curb mouthpiece, as I am assuming you are using one with a broken? With nervous, green, or horses that are a bit more hyper I use a D-ring snaffle with rollers in it, but I also have a curb bit with a roller in it which helps.

    With the little rears, it really depends on the horse what you should do. I used to discipline my horse when she would mini-rear, but then my trainer said I should try just ignoring them and act like I didn't even realize she did it and that is what fixed it with mine. If you feel like they are going to rear, put your hand on the middle of the top of their neck, right around the crest and pinch it and push down firmly. There was a girl at a show and her horse kept full out rearing and I showed her that trick and her horse stopped rearing, and if she felt like it was going to rear again she would put her hand on its neck in that position and the horse would just settle down. It was cool to see. I do that to mine when they rear and it has never failed me, even the little rears. But make sure it isn't from a saddle that is pinching :)
    Thankyou so much for your reply, though what do you mean by 'might be wanting to roll with me on'? :) sorry I'm not used to all these phrases! I will definitely try what you said - the lady I am loaning him from went and got a different saddle after he did the little rears and bucks ... he didn't do it again with the different saddle on (which she told me is much more comfy for him) but I was already then a little nervous incase he did it again! He also bolts when in hand on the way to his paddock; its all fenced in so he can't go anywhere and seems to just want to eat grass!
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        07-30-2013, 01:45 PM
      #4
    Weanling
    I have a gelding that will bring his nose down to the ground when trotting. He never tries to roll (in the dirt), he just stretches his neck out. I don't practice rollkur, or try to set him up in any kind of frame, so it is a bit weird that he does it. What you should do is always have your two hands on the reins. It'd be best to take up any slack in the reins, to maintain light contact. But don't make him feel trapped. When he reaches his head down, tighten your fists. You don't have to move your hands anywhere, just tighten them and keep continuing on at the same speed. When he hits a point where he can't go lower, he may try to pull- just keep the reins tight until he puts his head back into a position where you're comfortable (i.e., not on the ground!). Then act like nothing happened and move on. He will try it again, and again, and again. If you catch it late, don't worry! Just focus on trying to detect it before he does it.
    Personally, I'd be afraid that yanking his head up and kick him would make him rear. I know that just tightening your fists works, so try that first if you can.
         
        07-30-2013, 02:12 PM
      #5
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AnnaW123    
    Hey guys! I'm new to the forum, and am also new to loaning horses! I've been riding for many years and today tried out & agreed to loaning a 15'2 cob x, called Jazz. He is absolutely gorgeous, quite heavy weight so very comfy to ride!
    Issues: He has slipped into some habits such as dragging his head down to the floor constantly whilst been ridden - he chomps on the bit alot and seems to be trying to get his tongue over it. He's a strong boy, and I find it really hard (didnt have gloves on today silly me) to keep hold of the reins in that position when he is dragging his head right down to the floor! Is there any advice you guys can give me to help rectify this? :)
    Also, he is a bit of a spoilt beast and so does little mini rears (more like stamping really) when he doesnt want to do something ... he is a really nice natured horse and doesnt have a bad bone in him, he just seems to have been a bit spoilt and allowed to fall into some bad habits.
    Can anyone give me a hand please? :)
    Thankyou! Xxxx
    On the contrary, this horse does have a bad bone. He's taking advantage of you. When he puts his head down, push him forward by squeezing your calves, I don't believe he will rear when you ask him to be more forward. Horses rear when they are restricted from going forward, or when they're frustrated. If they can't go forward, they go up. Rearing is not something that is easily fixed from the saddle. Find the help of an experienced person. In the event that he does start to get higher in his rears, I suggest watching this video, so you know how to properly dismount.

         
        07-30-2013, 03:54 PM
      #6
    Green Broke
    This horse is running the show.

    And he is not a nice horse, at this point he is a spoiled brat who has a handler that doesn't know what they are doing.

    Every thing you are describing is your fault because you have not been taught what to do to correct it, so part of the blame also lies on whoever is not teaching you how to work with horses.

    Quit letting horse get head down when riding, and also get someone to teach you how to lead a horse and correct it to get it to behave. Once a horse has it's head down, you will NOT be able to pull it up.

    Don't just sit there and let it have all of the rein to do what it wants to, but shorten up on the reins and be a proactive rider, by keeping eye on what horse is up to. You are not up there as a cake topper. You are supposed to be in charge.

    You really need some basic horse handling lessons to deal with this.
         
        07-30-2013, 11:18 PM
      #7
    Green Broke
    I think what works best is whenever he puts his head down you drive him forward. He's putting his head down to get out of work. Either you'll try to pull his head up, and he'll lean on your hands or you'll try to pull his head up and he'll take that as his aid to stop. He's either learned that behaviour with riders who let him do it or he's just taking advantage of you. Either way, push him forward and don't stop until he's moving and his head is up.

    As far as ground manners, that is simply you not demanding respect. Research ground work online. Doesn't matter which trainer's philosophy you follow they'll all teach you to get basic yielding on the ground. Once he can yield if he ever moves in front of you, yield his hindquarters around and then make him stand. Then start again.

    I think it would be a great idea if you could get a good instructor to come and teach you a bit about horses, not just riding, but ground manners too. It's hard to help online because we can't see what you're doing, and we can't show you what to do.
    tinyliny and EvilHorseOfDoom like this.
         
        07-30-2013, 11:31 PM
      #8
    Super Moderator
    I can just imagine him. I disagree that because he is doing these evasions and has been behaving in this manner that he is "bad". There are very, very few horses that have a "bad bone in their body'. Very few. I bet he is actually a doll. But, his niceness can mean that people let him get away with too much, and a hrose that size can not be allowed to do that. It is ultimately unsafe. Ok?

    So, I think that the small rears are him tantruming and you'll have to push him through and past that. Ignore it in the sense that you dont' take it as a personal insult. You continue asking for what you are asking for and do not allow him to dissuade you from that path by alternate responses to your "go forward, now". Emphasize the NOW a bit more, and do it a bit more prompltly. If you stay in the "gray" area, you allow him to think that arguing MIGHT get him somewhere, so he'll think that to continue trying might work, so he'll UP the ante. Cut that off pretty quickly. I bet you anything, he'll be surprised, maybe jump a bit, then go right on to work for you and forget entirely his plan to make you give up the idea of work.

    The barging down on the rein should also be nipped in the bud. Use a firm hold on ONE rein, not two, to resist him (he cannot pull so hard against one, as opposed to how he can against two), and the second he goes to barge downward, hold firmly on one rein, lifting upward a bit, and put a firm leg on and get him to leap forward. Do not bop him in the mouth, and if he trots forward, go with him for a few steps, then GO RIGHT BACK TO ASKING FOR WHATEVER (TROT, WALK, CANTER) THAT YOU WERE ASKING FOR BEFORE, AS IF NOTHING HAPPENED.
    AmateurOwner likes this.
         
        07-31-2013, 01:08 AM
      #9
    Showing
    Rather than get into a battle over the reins, try using a crop behind your leg and drive him for more speed. This is the opposite of what he wants. Keep him going until his head comes up and then he is allowed to rest. Give him a few minutes then try again. Again if he pig roots, apply the crop again and drive him on. If a third time is needed and it probably will be, just repeat the exercise. He'll figure out that dropping his head results in a little sting on the rib and hard work.
         
        08-02-2013, 10:31 PM
      #10
    Foal
    I agree with previous posters.
    Be brave, confident and demand respect from your horse! He will not hate you, in fact he will gain respect and comfort around you. My horse was like this- rude and disrespectful. I began to ask for more respect and now when something frightens or makes him nervous he looks to me for reassurance- not because I was nice to him, but because I made him respect me.
    I've found Clinton Anderson's groundwork to be very helpful. Check it out.
    As for the rearing, ignore it and keep going with whatever you've been doing. You can even make him work a little harder. I suspect he's doing it to try to get you to stop and by showing him that that is not going to happen, he will eventually give up because he is expending unnecessary energy.
    Good luck with him. He does not have a bad bone in his body- he is being a horse. He will do whatever he gets away with because he doesn't know it's wrong. If he does know its wrong, he's doing it because no one is enforcing the eradication of the bad behavior. So stand up for yourself and ask for respect and you will have a great horse in no time.
    Beware though, that the behaviors might get worse before they get better. He's testing you, so continue to treat him the same way and do not allow the behaviors, no matter how bad they get. Eventually he will give up.
         

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