Thoughts on bit choice? - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 43 Old 01-10-2017, 07:26 PM
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The D ring is the most common in hunter classes right now so if you're going to replace the loose ring then that's probably the one to go with
I don't see a problem with using the figure 8 to prevent him sticking his tongue out - if it breaks the habit then why not - you can always swap it out when you're competing. Lowering the bit might also help, its putting pressure on his mouth and his poll when its over tight
It doesn't look as if you have the noseband properly adjusted though
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post #12 of 43 Old 01-10-2017, 07:39 PM
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When I look at the pictures you posted with the caveson noseband & blue ribbons I have to agree that the bit is to high in the mouth.
Look at the angle of the bit....it is already engaged not in a flat neutral position where the horse is carrying it quietly...it is retracted upward.
I would like to see the bit lowered and the caveson raised one hole..
2 fingers between cheekbone and caveson...
A slight tweaking might make the horse more comfortable and not "play" so much with his tongue...
Then again, his tongue is cute stuck out like he does....
Some horses just do this no matter what you do...
As long as he is soft and responsive....
I've seen many ride this way...and they Win, Place and Show in classes...
If he moves and rides like a hunter horse is supposed to...

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post #13 of 43 Old 01-10-2017, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, so I went out to the stable with the intention of lowering the bit a couple of notches (should I have one wrinkle? no wrinkles?), but it ended up being a moot point because we did a lot of cavaletti work in our lesson yesterday, so Ezhno was sore enough that he's getting the day off (and possibly tomorrow, too). Darn handsome horse, ruining all of my plans!

I think at this point I'm going to lower the bit for now and then pick up a D-ring when payday rolls around at the end of the month. The worst that happens is that he absolutely hates the D-ring and we just go back to the loose ring. Which brings me to my next question for all of you guys: what size D-ring snaffle do I need? The loose ring is 5.5", but typically you size those up... 5 1/4"? 5"? ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee View Post
It doesn't look as if you have the noseband properly adjusted though
Thank you for the figure 8 picture, it was helpful to have a pic to compare to where it is now! Looks like the squishy fleece part needs to be up higher... I'm going to fiddle with this next time I have the bridle on his face.

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Originally Posted by horselovinguy View Post
I would like to see the bit lowered and the caveson raised one hole..
2 fingers between cheekbone and caveson...
Good catch on the caveson, that's actually the highest it can go without some alterations (the end of the strap will jut out awkwardly if I punch more holes in it). I've got plans to fix it up before spring hits so that it's ready for show season. Darn bridles and their weirdly sized pieces and parts, can't everything just have one universal sizing system? Sigh.
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post #14 of 43 Old 01-10-2017, 08:47 PM
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hi, i found that loose ring bits can pinch the corners of the mouth,try vaseline or rubber bit guards..can i just point out too as a bit of friendly advice..
your grackle noseband really needs to go up a hole or two,it looks like its sitting on the soft part of the noses bone sructure which can cause damage and be uncomfortable for your horse,does he/she really need a grackle? a well fitted flash could be better. :)
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post #15 of 43 Old 01-10-2017, 09:12 PM
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I like a bit to just barely touch the corners of the mouth. In my limited experience, the horse will learn to pick it up on their own. If they have a little room to play with it that seems to be a positive.

In a more "forced" position, I sometimes wonder if that is what tie-downs and cavasons were invented. Forcing the mouth closed. Not necessarily bad, a horse has a job to do and expectations.

I'm not very experienced with your type of tack, just an observation.
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post #16 of 43 Old 01-10-2017, 10:29 PM
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He is cute! But I really think the bit us too high. Also, does it have any curve to ut, or us it straight.?
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post #17 of 43 Old 01-10-2017, 10:39 PM
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I would drop it as well. As said you want a loose ring to fit slightly bigger then the "proper" size compared to other bits. So 5.5 may be good for him but in a loose ring I'd go bigger.

It looks far to small in the first pics then fine in the others, may be the noseband is causing it to sit a little differently?

Drop it and see what happens, if no go go up a size and/or try a different style. A d or eggbutt are pretty close to the same thing. In fact he may benefit from a little more support anyways as he's learning.
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post #18 of 43 Old 01-10-2017, 11:40 PM
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Definitely drop the bit lower, by one or two holes (just so long as it doesn't bang on his teeth). I'm a bit concerned that it was your trainer that tightened it to that level!?

I think bit is too short across in his mouth. Do you really need the grackle? If not ditch it because you want to train in gear you will compete in. The cavesson, I like where you have it sitting but I would loosen it round the nose, decorative only rather than restricting the jaw.

I quite like an eggbutt, but realize it works a little different on the horses mouth. Certainly worth a try if you can borrow one before you start spending money.

Personally not keen on the D ring but just aesthetics. We were once given a D ring for sisters pony but that was because it was aluminium and very very light for his delicate mouth.

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post #19 of 43 Old 01-11-2017, 12:29 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz80 View Post
your grackle noseband really needs to go up a hole or two,it looks like its sitting on the soft part of the noses bone sructure which can cause damage and be uncomfortable for your horse,does he/she really need a grackle? a well fitted flash could be better. :)
Agree, @jaydee posted pictures and I do think I need to adjust my figure 8 so that it sits a bit higher (though I'm 100% certain it's not sitting on the soft part of his nose, so no worries there). The figure 8 is a temporary thing (well, hopefully temporary) meant to discourage him from sticking his tongue out. I prefer the figure 8 over the flash because I believe they're generally more comfortable and less prone to cutting off the horse's airway (but feel free to link me to sources for conflicting opinions!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgnmoose View Post
In a more "forced" position, I sometimes wonder if that is what tie-downs and cavasons were invented. Forcing the mouth closed.
I like to think that yes, the cavesson was created to force the mouth to stay closedóbut I hope it was invented for safety reasons, not style! After all, one of the main reasons they're used with English setups is to prevent the possibility of snaffle bits sliding through the mouth. I wouldn't really feel comfortable riding in a snaffle bit without some form of noseband, just in case.[/QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by tinyliny View Post
He is cute! But I really think the bit us too high. Also, does it have any curve to ut, or us it straight.
Excited to try it out with the bit a little lower, I just have to wait for my darn horse to recover from his muscle soreness. I think the bit has a slight curve to it, but I can't really recall at the moment. Can't say I really knew a lot about English bits when I bought it, just went to the tack store and came back with the simplest loose ring snaffle I could buy. All I can tell you is that it's a 5.5" Korsteel loose ring snaffle (single joint and the thicker of the ones they were selling at the store), ha ha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogiwick View Post
As said you want a loose ring to fit slightly bigger then the "proper" size compared to other bits. So 5.5 may be good for him but in a loose ring I'd go bigger. It looks far to small in the first pics then fine in the others, may be the noseband is causing it to sit a little differently?
The second set of pictures is probably a better set to go with, my bet is that the first pic it was a little off center in his mouth, whereas I know it didn't get moved around during the second set. So, if the 5.5" loose ring fits him (which I think it does, he has a good 1/4" of space between the corners of his mouth and the bit on both sides), what size of D-ring do I buy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShirtHotTeez View Post
I'm a bit concerned that it was your trainer that tightened it to that level!? I think bit is too short across in his mouth. Do you really need the grackle? If not ditch it because you want to train in gear you will compete in. The cavesson, I like where you have it sitting but I would loosen it round the nose, decorative only rather than restricting the jaw. I quite like an eggbutt, but realize it works a little different on the horses mouth. Certainly worth a try if you can borrow one before you start spending money. Personally not keen on the D ring but just aesthetics.
Thanks for the concern, but my trust in my trainer is 100% (with a two percent margin of error that accounts for differing opinions, lol). There are pros and cons for having the bit high in the mouth vs. low in the mouth, and I am confident that when she originally adjusted his bridle she did it with consideration for our individual situation (possibly having to do with him playing with his tongue and her not wanting him to get it over the bit in the initial stages of his training, because there were a couple of times where we had to check, HA).

The figure 8 is temporary (hopefully) and I don't really have more to say on it that I haven't said already. It'll be on him until I decide (with the input of my trainer) that it's time to remove it and switch back to a cavesson, and if we end up schooling in it forever, that's fine with me! And neither my cavesson nor my figure 8 are cranked tight, they're set at a very comfortable level that lets the equipment do its job without making him uncomfortable.

Funny enough, I feel the same way about the eggbutt/D-ring debate, except the opposite; I like the D-ring, but I'm personally not keen on the aesthetics of the eggbutt (which sounds silly because aesthetics shouldn't really come into a debate about which bit to use, but...). :)
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post #20 of 43 Old 01-11-2017, 12:50 AM
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"what size D-ring snaffle do I need? The loose ring is 5.5", but typically you size those up... 5 1/4"? 5"? ??"

I think 5.5 looks good on him and you don't need to size down to "normal" but would ideally size up if continuing with the loose ring...does that make sense? Too small is more of an issue than too big. That said he doesn't look like a horse that would need a big bit. Is there another D ring you can throw on him to get a better idea?

As far as adjustments for the cavesson that's a good point. I think what needs to happen is the top part over his nose is too long hence is sitting too low. It's not that the cheek needs to be raised, but the top part adjusted (so use the fuzzy area to tighten the top and loosen the bottom to change the angle, then adjust the buckle to appropriate tightness). Unfortunately I've been in that boat and they often are not that adjustable! You may need to play around with it a bit though I agree the "flash" part needs to be at a higher angle. Not sure that's making a difference with the bit thought. Going with a flash may be better if you can't adjust it properly.

ETA- going off your response and the second set of pics I would guesstimate 5 1/4. I still think borrowing a bit of the size you're thinking of is a good start. :)
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