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Unrealistic expectations when shopping for a horse?

This is a discussion on Unrealistic expectations when shopping for a horse? within the New to Horses forums, part of the Keeping and Caring for Horses category

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        07-30-2013, 02:37 PM
      #11
    Weanling
    I just sold my horse, and people asked does the horse buck or rear? I would always respond no, but I also said she had bucked with my friend once. It was a small, playful buck. People should ask, "Does this horse have any bad HABITS such as bucking or rearing?". The horse I rode and trained last year was the most laid back and most respectful horse you would ever meet, so you would ride her pretty easy. But then sometimes she would throw a single buck to make sure you were paying attention, which usually you weren't because she was such a nice, laid back horse. Bucking/Rearing is a habit, every horse has either done a mini rear, a little buck, spooked at something, etc....
         
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        07-30-2013, 02:38 PM
      #12
    Trained
    If you are uncomfortable and feel unsafe with a horse that you have bought you REALLY need to find an instructor/trainer to train your horse and teach YOU how to handle him.
    Using language to describe is rather feeble at times. I suggest, too, that you buy Clinton Anderson's basic training package. His background is frustration that the "lucky" people always had the horses that didn't try to throw their riders. He found trainers who understood what makes a horse comfortable:
    1) good human leadership
    2) regular food/water/shelter
    3) the ability to move away from danger--flight first, then fight, if backed into a corner
    You obviously cannot tell the difference between a horse that is frightened and a horse that has learned to get out of work. Both can be dangerous.
    As I said in my thread, your BEST BET for buying a safe horse is to find a sound horse that has been shown...a LOT.
    People DO sell their successful show horses bc they have outgrown them. It could be bc of size, it could be lack of speed, it could be the wrong fit for their hobby. Many show people hire trainers and these trainers also help them to sell the horse they have outgrown. THIS IS THE HORSE YOU WANT bc this horse has been groomed to death, trailered ad nauseum, and worked at least 5 days/week (during show season.) This type of horse has a LOT of hours under saddle, and makes an excellent first horse.
    Buying somebody's backyard pet is a crap shoot. Even buying from a private owner at a boarding stable is not a safe bet.
    RE: a horse will always buck if the saddle hurts, I beg to differ. My QH "Ro Go Bar" (1982-2009, RIP) carried a pack saddle all day many years ago, and I didn't know that it was rubbing. He never bucked, just winced...all 15'3hh and 1,250 pounds of him, in case you think he was underweight and unable to buck. (He did buck the first time I shot off of his back, in 1987!!) Honestly, my lesson horses were ridden FAR MORE than anybody's private horse here simply bc they did 5 days/lessons, sometimes 2 back to back 1/2 the year and then 5-7 lessons on a Saturday, 1/2 the year, and THEN we did about 7 weekends of CW Reenactments--National Events went about one week at a time, AND 2-week family vacations. Horses today and just NOT worked with enough to break them in and THOSE are the horses listed online for sale.
    CA has created a usable "Method" to both connect with your horse and control him. I have been watching his programs for 4 years now and I listen when he mutters asides like, "I thought we were through with this kind of training," referencing abuse.
    greentree and kbg7506 like this.
         
        07-30-2013, 02:41 PM
      #13
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corporal    
    It is smart to buy a horse that doesn't buck or rear. Horseman that show professionally will sometimes buy a horse with problems bc they see a diamond in the rough at a great price and they KNOW that they can turn the horse around.
    The rest of us have gotten tired of finding 99/100 horses out there for sale bc somebody mis-trained them to be dangerous.
    Please read my thread:
    How to buy the RIGHT first horse
    I think this will help you. =D

    I read your post and I love it! You wouldn't happen to have any horses for sale currently, would you? The hardest part is finding a trainer you can trust to help you find the right horse. I was taking lessons at a jumping farm a few months ago but the trainer there wasn't interested in trail riding which is what I primarily want to do. (The jumping lessons were just to learn something new). My next step is to call this farm near us and see about taking lessons in western and trail. I didn't even know that this was an option until I found this farm. So wish me luck on that.

    But it's nice to know that I am not being completely unrealistic in my criteria while shopping. I understand the risk but I am also not interested in getting hurt on a horse that has an nasty temper (like the one we are sending back). I just have to be patient and do what everyone suggests: think with my head and not with my heart! Thanks
    Corporal likes this.
         
        07-30-2013, 02:53 PM
      #14
    Yearling
    Any horse, even those that are indicated as 100% bombproof..ye old 15 year old plough horse, can have issues..they are domesticated animals that can exist on pure instinct if the situation comes up.

    I am a 30+ year hunter/jumper type but my nerves (or maybe my common sense) caught up with my age. I used to prefer the hot horses but now, I prefer one that isn't going to buck, bolt, rear as a matter of normal day-to-day riding rather than the occasional, and I do mean OCCASIONAL, issue if something weird comes about. I have a friend who just recently turned down a very good horse that was perfect for what she needed..why..it was TOO calm..but she is a rider that likes the horses that are hot and hyper. A horse that just bounces nicely around a jumper course with energy but without argument are too tame for her..personally I think she is nuts :)

    As others are saying, you need to be careful with your hunt. I am one of those that falls in love very quickly and have a hard time separating out the practical form the emotional side of me. I am getting better at it but it is very very hard to think I have found the right horse only to have the horse not vet or some other issue comes up.

    There are quiet horses out there that register very low on what I refer to as the spook meter, and who will not offer up any major silliness under saddle. Be very careful if one comes up, however, that really is to good to be true...one thing I ALWAYS do in a pre-purchase is pull a drug panel without notifying the owner/seller that I am going to do so prior to the day of the vet exam. I read that sedatives and painkillers can be definitively detected up to 4 days in the blood but after that the results can be iffy. A horse doesn't have to be seeing double to be drugged into being calm so it isn't always visually detectable.
    kbg7506 likes this.
         
        07-30-2013, 03:05 PM
      #15
    Trained
    Tlkng1,
    I'm glad that your common sense caught up with you. I got smarter after getting thrown once and breaking my arm, THEN, getting thrown by Alpo 1, 2, and 3 while horse shopping. It REALLY shakes up your nerves.
    You and I, unlike the OP, could probably ride out a buck. I know I used to do it.
    There's another thread talking about the value of "bombproof horses." I really believe that this is going to be the hot market from now on. I'm really surprised that this hasn't caught on more, but I think it will. Too many uneducated buyers out there buying dangerous horses on impulse, ruining them more--some beyond anybody's sale price.
    MEANTIME, I've been studying up and practicing loose lunging, lunging, perfect ground manners and I'm about to learn long lining. I worked my old herd so much I never needed to lunge anybody, so this is ALL relatively new to me.
    My 7yo KMH is getting really good, and my 7yo QH came to me with a really good verbal "WHOA", he just needs some more confidence, and I need more time to train...sigh...too busy working.
         
        07-30-2013, 03:15 PM
      #16
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Corporal    
    tlkng1,
    I'm glad that your common sense caught up with you. I got smarter after getting thrown once and breaking my arm, THEN, getting thrown by Alpo 1, 2, and 3 while horse shopping. It REALLY shakes up your nerves.
    You and I, unlike the OP, could probably ride out a buck. I know I used to do it.
    There's another thread talking about the value of "bombproof horses." I really believe that this is going to be the hot market from now on. I'm really surprised that this hasn't caught on more, but I think it will. Too many uneducated buyers out there buying dangerous horses on impulse, ruining them more--some beyond anybody's sale price.
    MEANTIME, I've been studying up and practicing loose lunging, lunging, perfect ground manners and I'm about to learn long lining. I worked my old herd so much I never needed to lunge anybody, so this is ALL relatively new to me.
    My 7yo KMH is getting really good, and my 7yo QH came to me with a really good verbal "WHOA", he just needs some more confidence, and I need more time to train...sigh...too busy working.
    I admit I like my horses to have good brakes..occasionally they need to be recalibrated a bit but if I ask for a change in gait or a halt I want it NOW, not when They decide to come back.

    As for riding out a buck..I don't too well there but it is probably more that I give up too easily. I've ridden out minor bucks, meaning one or two low crowhop type of bucking, but never a full blown, take off after a jump bucking all the way to the corner version..when or if that has happened I just tried to slow them down prior to being launched and looked for a semi-soft place to land :).

    Now, as fro my claim no horse is REALLY 100% bombproof..I amy have found one. ONe of the school horses I have been practicing with my dressage saddle on is pretty darned close. I was riding in our indoor arena which has a tin roof and it started raining,,,very hard..sounded like a kettle drum. Most horses in that situation are OK but they may tense and just get a little edgy without really doing anything but you can tell they aren't completely happy. The horse I was riding never twitched an ear..he stayed at the same pace, didn't flinch and when I asked for the canter in all that racket he popped into it nice and calm. Is he deaf...no...LOL..just that type and would be the perfect horse for any beginner. He is a huge favorite in the barn.
    kbg7506 likes this.
         
        07-30-2013, 03:37 PM
      #17
    Trained
    I'm with you.
    At the risk of WRITING this, IMHO, when my horse is just NOT listening well enough to a halt or half halt I try to remember that he is 10X BIGGER THAN ME and won't fall over and die If I haul back on the reins!!
    I REALLY like Dennis Reis's training methods. He emphasizes using weight while starting 2yo's, and I like to watch him retrain older horses and backtrack so that THEY, TOO, listen to weight cues for all gaits AND for the halt. If you get RFD.TV he has a weekly program. I starting riding Hunter and I'm betting your went over a lot more fences than I ever have, but I ride English even in Western tack, anyway, so "Vaquero Training" is a new thing to me.
         
        07-30-2013, 04:10 PM
      #18
    Yearling
    GI'd hate to be the guinea pig rider thrown up there. Safer is to put an experienced trainer that can push a horse by riding crappy and gauge the response. That is where taking someone that knows you, knows what you need and is more experienced comes in.
    Corporal and kbg7506 like this.
         
        07-30-2013, 04:17 PM
      #19
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kbg7506    
    I am relatively new to this forum but I am not really new to horses. I chose this section of the forum to post this since I have not owned a horse in over five years (not including the one I bought two months ago and am currently in the process of sending back because he was too much horse for me). My question is: is it unrealistic to search for a horse that doesn't buck or rear? I know that horses are a dangerous hobby and I am okay with the risk when an injury or tumble is my own fault (bad riding or doing something silly). However, I am not okay with getting tossed because the horse wants me off. I don't even want that to be an option in the horses mind when I am riding. Is this an unrealistic hope? I am a good rider with a good seat and hands, but I don't have good reflexes and when really bad behavior starts like bucking or rearing, I freeze and don't know what to do. I guess after confusing you all, my questions are these:
    1. Is it unrealistic to try to find a horse that doesn't buck or rear?
    2. Are there any give aways when shopping that will tell if the horse does these things?
    Thanks people!
    My 1st guess was if you are running into problem horses I bet your budget is small. Don't know what you want to spend but nice safe horses can be expensive. Yes there are lots of give aways on problem horses. First I never ride anything that the owner won't ride 1st. 2nd I take them away from the barn and herd and see how they react. I also may go and check them out a few times.
    Corporal likes this.
         
        07-30-2013, 04:30 PM
      #20
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by churumbeque    
    My 1st guess was if you are running into problem horses I bet your budget is small. Don't know what you want to spend but nice safe horses can be expensive. Yes there are lots of give aways on problem horses. First I never ride anything that the owner won't ride 1st. 2nd I take them away from the barn and herd and see how they react. I also may go and check them out a few times.

    I like to think I have a pretty decent budget. And I am willing to spend a bit more on something that is safe if it really is what the seller says. I agree and will (from now on) make the owner ride the horse before I do. Not only does it show you how the horse can act but you also get a chance to see how it moves. And taking the horse away from the barn and herd is also a really good idea that I have always done when looking at horses. I also like and will use the idea of riding them more than once if possible. I guess the hard part, which others have given suggestions on, is figuring out how they act when they are pushed to do things or frustrated or confused. Which several people have suggested putting an experienced rider on them and have them do the things that inexperienced riders do and see how the horse handles it. I think all of these are a great ideas. Thanks for your advice!!!
         

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