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Arizahn 10-28-2011 09:01 AM

I need some objective second opinions on whether to buy
 
Hi everyone.
I have hit what I think is a weird obstacle in buying a horse.

I went to view a mare about three weeks back and really liked her. I took a week to think it over, then texted the seller to tell them that I wanted to buy. They texted back to say this was great and even offered to transport the horse to my yard for free. So far so good.
The seller wanted cash in hand, which was fine. I asked if we could have a reciept of sale, and they refused. They offered to deliver the horse and take payment on delivery, so that we wouldn't be handing over cash before hand.

Now, this perturbed me a bit, but as they had the passport and the horse was sound, etc, I said ok, we will sort out the passport when you deliver. I then went and checked online what fees I had to pay to change ownership on the passport. That was when I discovered that there was a form that both the seller and the buyer needed to fill out and return to the passport agency.

I figured this was easy enough and texted to the seller that I would be happy to print this form out and bring it along to the yard.

The seller then rang me and insisted that such a form was not needed. They then added that their father had bought the horse and they were selling it for him, so he would write a letter confirming we had bought the horse from him.

Then they admitted that the only name on the passport is that of the original breeder:shock:
Well, I was really confused by now and my YO offered to go up and chat to the seller with me. We were both pretty sure it was going to be easily sorted. I arranged to go up and see the horse again and chat. The seller was happy enough. That was yesterday afternoon.

This morning we were due to visit, I got a call from the seller. The horse had a small cut on its leg and couldn't be ridden as it was too swollen. They said it was a field injury (lives out) and that they were getting it penicillin and they would call me in a couple of days to rearrange a viewing.

Now, I am probably worried over nothing but the horse was meant to be sold to me on 4th November - this isn't a big window.
Is it likely that a horse could be sound one day, too lame to ride the next, but fit for sale within a week?
The horse did have a very small scratch on its leg the day I viewed it originally. I pointed it out at the time and the seller said they were going to treat it with purple spray. Since then, I have been assured several times that the horse was fine and riding well, so I just figured that it was just a little scratch and had been treated.

I am worried. Should I go ahead with the sale or walk away? Or should I ask for more time - insist that the horse is sound for a set time before buying?
Main problem is that it is a lovely animal and just what I wanted in a horse. But the seller has, well, spooked me a little with their odd behaviour.

Chocolate brownies if you got this far! Thanks:oops:

Speed Racer 10-28-2011 09:05 AM

I'd run far, far away from this 'deal'.

Sounds like the person trying to sell the horse may not legally be able to.

If the passport is in the original breeder's name, how do you know this animal isn't stolen?

As I was reading your post, the red flags were popping up all over. ANYONE reluctant to sell a horse the right way is more than likely not doing it legally.

iridehorses 10-28-2011 09:16 AM

Although there may be good reasons for such a sketchy sale, I agree with Speed that something would make me very very uncomfortable. Going with my gut feeling, I would walk away from the purchase.

Even if there is a reason why the passport is still in the boarder's name (and as an example, I've bought and sold many horses that never had their registration transferred to my name - but has the proper papers filled out by the person on the registration) and, for some reason, this is the only horse in the world for you, I would want the name of the person on the passport and I would make a call to them. If they refuse for any reason, I would walk away from this purchase.

Oh, and yes, it is very possible that the horse can be sound one day and not rideable the next.

(Thank you for the brownies - I love the ones with nuts in them)

Speed Racer 10-28-2011 09:26 AM

Iride, I agree it's not so much that the passport/registration was never transferred because that does happen in a lot of cases, but that the seller keeps coming up with excuses as to why the sale can't be done properly. That's what's giving me the hibbity-jibbities, especially the part about not willing to draw up a bill of sale on the mare.

If the seller was on the up and up, there shouldn't be a second's hesitation about drawing up a receipt or bill of sale. Add to that they want CASH ONLY and it smells very, very fishy to me. Cash isn't traceable, and without a signed receipt/bill of sale, the OP could be scammed out of both the horse and the money.

Beauseant 10-28-2011 09:31 AM

No receipt of sale, no deal in my world!!!

Epona was bought from a fellow boarder at our farm, with the BO's intervention as a go between because the owner owed her over a thousand dollars. She wrote up a detailed contract in which she stated that she would get her money and the proceeds would go to the seller. Contract was signed and dated by seller, BO and me stating all financial obligations seller owed BO would be settled and that the horse now belonged to buyer, us. The contract also stated Epona's registered name, age, breed, color and markings, and height and sale price.

With Beau, we bought him from a used horse dealer, and we received a sales receipt imprinted with his name, address and phone number....stating the age,gender, color and breed of the horse we bought and for how much. Also, signed by him. He also gave us his original coggins test report from the agriculture department.

I would settle for no less. When I buy a horse and invest money in it, and grow to love it like it were part of my family....I want NO chance of anyone coming back later and trying to contest ownership and take my "baby" from me.

OP, you have a right to request a sales receipt, and you have a right to receive one.....if seller refuses, then you should be highly suspicious as to the reason. And the reason you stated:that the person was selling it for their father, is NOT a good reason. That lame reason does not in any way mean you cannot receive a sales receipt.

FURTHERMORE, I would ask, not only for a sales receipt, but for one with the age, color, gender and breed on it, as well as the sale price.....like we got when we bought both our horses.

mls 10-28-2011 09:36 AM

No sales contract = no sale.

Sorry!

Speed Racer 10-28-2011 09:36 AM

When I went and picked up JJ, his owner/trainer had drawn up a bill of sale for $1.00, which we both signed. I asked her if she wanted a dollar, but she laughed and said no, she just wanted to make sure there were no questions as to JJ being mine. :-P

I've had a bill of sale/transfer of registration for every horse I've owned, and if a seller isn't willing to do that, then I'd walk away.

There's no GOOD reason someone selling a horse shouldn't give you a receipt/bill of sale/registration papers.

gigem88 10-28-2011 09:37 AM

sounds too fishy, I'd pass.

iridehorses 10-28-2011 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed Racer (Post 1214561)
Iride, I agree it's not so much that the passport/registration was never transferred because that does happen in a lot of cases, but that the seller keeps coming up with excuses as to why the sale can't be done properly. That's what's giving me the hibbity-jibbities, especially the part about not willing to draw up a bill of sale on the mare.

If the seller was on the up and up, there shouldn't be a second's hesitation about drawing up a receipt or bill of sale. Add to that they want CASH ONLY and it smells very, very fishy to me. Cash isn't traceable, and without a signed receipt/bill of sale, the OP could be scammed out of both the horse and the money.

True. It seems that the seller can't give her a receipt because they can't prove ownership to the horse which makes the whole thing problematic.

As Speed suggested, this is way too convoluted and unless the name of the passport is the one who signs him over to you - this whole thing could be a legal mess. It is quite possible that the horse was confiscated due to back board but then there should be some form of new ownership by the sellers. As far as cash is concerned - that is the only way I sell a horse as well.

kitten_Val 10-28-2011 09:44 AM

I'm with SR on this one. Run away. When there is a legitimate sale the owner has nothing to hide. I had no problem re-signing all papers on my name for both of my mares (from different owners). In fact my qh never was re-signed from the breeder to the owner before me, so that owner contacted the breeder directly for me and asked him to sign.


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