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-   -   Possible candidate for daughter--are his back legs okay? (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-conformation-critique/possible-candidate-daughter-his-back-legs-104524/)

Fowl Play 11-27-2011 10:39 AM

Possible candidate for daughter--are his back legs okay?
 
We're looking at horses for my daughter for 4-H. This is one that caught our eye. I did realize he hasn't been gelded yet, so that might be an issue. We are working with our trainer so she'll call the owners and make a final call. I was looking at the pictures again and it looks to me that the hind legs are a little different. These aren't the best confo shots, so I'm really only asking about his hind legs. To me, they look like they're too far under him. Am I correct, or is it possibly just not the best photos for this?

APHA 3 yrs old Colt, paint, 4 sale or trade, grandson to Lucky Straw

Again, I'm too new to be doing this alone so I am very grateful for our trainer who is doing a lot of the groundwork for us. She is amazing and is determined to find the right horse for our daughter. Also, before anyone jumps all over me for looking at a 3 year old, I would ride with lessons for the year while my daughter continued to lease her current 4-H project for this year. I will not put my kid on a horse that she isn't ready to ride, but I don't want to buy a horse that is nearing retirement because I already know that my daughter's first horse will be a part of our family for life, if it's nearing retirement, we'll be starting the search over again too soon. We are looking at horses under 10.

Hidalgo13 11-27-2011 10:46 AM

It;s good you would ride the horse and train it before you handed to your daughter, but before that horse is safe and reliable enough for her (as she looks quite young in your avatar), it might take a few years. Firstly because the horse hasn't finished growing yet and at 3, he still has a lot to learn. Of course it depends on how soon you want her to ride him. If Let's say you would pass her to him in 2-3 years and he is a very calm, willing horse, then ok. If you are thinking any sooner than that and he happens to have small issues that could still be difficult for your daughter to control (as she isn't very strong or big yet), than pass the horse and get soemthing older.

You don't need to get a 15 year old! But a 5-6 year old horse woudl already be better (if the horse has the appropriate disposition of course). Remeber younger horses are like crazy teens. They are learning and WILL do crazy stuff sometimes before learning they shouldn't and you won;t let them.

Fowl Play 11-27-2011 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hidalgo13 (Post 1245580)
It;s good you would ride the horse and train it before you handed to your daughter, but before that horse is safe and reliable enough for her (as she looks quite young in your avatar), it might take a few years. Firstly because the horse hasn't finished growing yet and at 3, he still has a lot to learn. Of course it depends on how soon you want her to ride him. If Let's say you would pass her to him in 2-3 years and he is a very calm, willing horse, then ok. If you are thinking any sooner than that and he happens to have small issues that could still be difficult for your daughter to control (as she isn't very strong or big yet), than pass the horse and get soemthing older.

You don't need to get a 15 year old! But a 5-6 year old horse woudl already be better (if the horse has the appropriate disposition of course). Remeber younger horses are like crazy teens. They are learning and WILL do crazy stuff sometimes before learning they shouldn't and you won;t let them.

Thanks. Those pictures are a year and a half old and I can't remember how to change them:oops:. My daughter would not ride him this year at all, unless my trainer felt like she was ready to. If he wouldn't work next year, we already have another lease horse on the backburner. I trust my trainer very much to know my daughter and the horse. I'm trying not to sound like a bragging mother...our trainer says that she does not ride like a kid, she rides like she has the gift. While she's just shy of 10, physically, she's the size of many of my freshmen students.

Again, I will defer to our trainer since she knows my daughter and her level, and knows horses well. I trust her judgement very much.

Cinnys Whinny 11-27-2011 11:22 AM

For starters, the horse is really cute. It does seem a little cow hocked in the back which isn't always a real big deal depending on what your plans are, some deciplines may be harder for it than others (ie juping). I personally don't like his front legs. In most of the shots he looks a bit knee back and like his weight is forced back a tad on his feet, right onto the navicular bone. Your trainer would probably be able to tell for sure in person. I am really wary of horses that have the knees slightly back and the weight distributed like this because they are more prone to navicular issues and at an earlier age.

Navicular is manageable and isn't a death sentence for the horse. However it can be costly to manage correctly and it isn't always a guarantee the horse won't be in pain.

Cat 11-27-2011 11:26 AM

I personally would move on and look for a different horse.

First of all - they say he can be registered. With how old he is getting him registered is going to cost a small fortune. In this economy you can find a registered horse, gelded, etc for a similar price - or cheaper.

I know you want to find a young horse, but I would still recommend at least having your lower cut-off at 5 years. At least they are approaching mental maturity at that age which works better as a child's mount. I would also look for a horse that was gelded at a young age. At 3 his hormones have probably kicked in and it could lead to some undesirable behavior even after he is gelded.

As to the horse's conformation - the first thing that jumps out at me is how sickle hocked he is. I'm also curious to see how down-hill he is. Majority of the photos in their photobucket account have him standing on a hill which is always a red flag to me. Standing on a hill like that will make them appear level and can also help mask other undesirable traits. I also really do not like how straight that shoulder is.

Good luck on finding your daughter a suitable mount that will stay sound for many years. Personally I'm thinking this one is not it.

Fowl Play 11-27-2011 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinnys Whinny (Post 1245613)
For starters, the horse is really cute. It does seem a little cow hocked in the back which isn't always a real big deal depending on what your plans are, some deciplines may be harder for it than others (ie juping). I personally don't like his front legs. In most of the shots he looks a bit knee back and like his weight is forced back a tad on his feet, right onto the navicular bone. Your trainer would probably be able to tell for sure in person. I am really wary of horses that have the knees slightly back and the weight distributed like this because they are more prone to navicular issues and at an earlier age.

Navicular is manageable and isn't a death sentence for the horse. However it can be costly to manage correctly and it isn't always a guarantee the horse won't be in pain.

Thanks. I guess I never really noticed his front legs. This is the information I want to know. As I said, any horse we get will be with us for a long time, and the hope is that my daughter will be able to finish 4-h with this horse. That means at least 8 more years of riding quite regularly, but probably longer. During the summer any horse we own will be used 5-6 days a week. I don't want a horse that won't be able to keep up with her.

Fowl Play 11-27-2011 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat (Post 1245619)
I personally would move on and look for a different horse.

First of all - they say he can be registered. With how old he is getting him registered is going to cost a small fortune. In this economy you can find a registered horse, gelded, etc for a similar price - or cheaper.

I know you want to find a young horse, but I would still recommend at least having your lower cut-off at 5 years. At least they are approaching mental maturity at that age which works better as a child's mount. I would also look for a horse that was gelded at a young age. At 3 his hormones have probably kicked in and it could lead to some undesirable behavior even after he is gelded.

As to the horse's conformation - the first thing that jumps out at me is how sickle hocked he is. I'm also curious to see how down-hill he is. Majority of the photos in their photobucket account have him standing on a hill which is always a red flag to me. Standing on a hill like that will make them appear level and can also help mask other undesirable traits. I also really do not like how straight that shoulder is.

Good luck on finding your daughter a suitable mount that will stay sound for many years. Personally I'm thinking this one is not it.

Thanks. The lack of being gelded might have just crossed him off the list. I didn't realize that at first. As I'm still trying to learn as much about conformation as possible, I was especially interested in his legs because they didn't look right...I couldn't put a label on what I saw, but it wasn't right. I appreciate your feedback.

proequine 11-27-2011 11:36 AM

Your right, these photos are really bad for judging a horse.??
Great Color which is all you can see.
Please tell me you and your trainer will be seeing this horse live before you buy??? If not walk away... This market, there are so many good horses out there. I would be worried that the seller is NOT squaring this horse up and showing any full leg shots. LF pastern is turned out in the 1 shot, chest looks narrow,... horse will not be a contender in a "halter class" if she is thinking of showing...
You did not explain what she likes to ride? or if she has the "show bug?" Your daughter sounds tall for her age, if she is riding English, that would be something else to consider.
I also vote for a 5-6 year old, with additional training.

Fowl Play 11-27-2011 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proequine (Post 1245624)
Your right, these photos are really bad for judging a horse.??
Great Color which is all you can see.
Please tell me you and your trainer will be seeing this horse live before you buy??? If not walk away... This market, there are so many good horses out there. I would be worried that the seller is NOT squaring this horse up and showing any full leg shots. LF pastern is turned out in the 1 shot, chest looks narrow,... horse will not be a contender in a "halter class" if she is thinking of showing...
You did not explain what she likes to ride? or if she has the "show bug?" Your daughter sounds tall for her age, if she is riding English, that would be something else to consider.
I also vote for a 5-6 year old, with additional training.

Yes, we would see the horse before we buy. We're hoping for a trial as well, but that's not always an option. A vet check is also something we've saved for.

She would be doing performance 4-H. She'd love to do reining but they do not offer that aroundhere for 4-H so it would be Western Pleasure 1st, then English pleasure (and equitation, trail, showmanship, etc.) Our barn has a challenge trail course in the back yard so she'd be doing quite a bit of that, and trail rides locally (with our trainer, and some of the others from the barn).

Her size is a concern. She is 5' tall and won't be 10 until March. She's 100lbs now. She's solid. Not fat, but the girl is solid. If she's playing around and shoulders you, you notice. She also wears a size 8 boot right now. If her feet are an indication, she's got a lot of growing to do. She grew 5 inches last school year!

She does a few local schooling shows for practice, and I know she'd like to do more, but as her current (lease) horse is aged, we go easy on him.

I finally figured out how to change my sig pic so you have a better idea of her size. That horse is 14.2.

tinyliny 11-27-2011 01:01 PM

Hello Fowl Play, (from another Washingtonian)

I think he is a bit sickle hocked, I am afraid. I didnt' see anything with the knee. The hind end is in general, a bit weak of conformation, but not a huge deal for 4 H type uses.
If you want him and his mind is good, I can see that he would be usealbe by a youngster in a few years,. maybe less. I know that most people would say dont' do this, and in honesty, I do think you would be better off to buy a slightly older horse, whose temperament would be more fixed, but it isn't impossible, what you are contemplating. I just wonder why? It's like you are looking to take the harder path and I am confused why anyone would want to take the harder path?

Inany case, you asked about his legs, and I do think he is a bit sickle hocked. Best of luck with whatever choice you make.


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