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Phantomcolt18 12-02-2011 07:18 PM

Navicular Causing Hoof To Bleed? (Wondering)
So this isn't about my horse but I've never heard of it happpening before so I was wondering if anyone knew what the reasons were behind it happening.

(This is all just background info)
My friends have this barrel mare and she was diagnosed with navicular syndrome around the age of 15(she is now 28) There was a slight rotation to the coffin bone when they first found out but they never re-did Xrays to see if it changed at all or if they were keeping it maintained. They just kept her in padded wedge shoes while she ran barrels.

This mare pounds HARD with both front feet, always has. And out of the blue this past May her owner decided she didn't need the wedges anymore and took them off to put barrel shoes on. Well as I said this mare pounds really hard so naturally I felt this was a bit risky but it's not my horse.

So about a month ago they pulled her shoes. A few weeks later they find the mare down and she doesn't want to get up and when they get her up she doesn't want to walk at all. They have the farrier come out and he looks at her foot and both front feet are one big bruise. The whole sole is a purply(sp?) bruise. When he tried to shave off a bit of the overgrown hoof(she was due for a trim) it bled and he BARELY shaved any off and around the entire edge of the hoof it bled and she nearly yanked her feet out of his hands.

What would cause this? If navicular gets bad enough will it cause the hoof to bleed? Could this mean that the coffin bone rotated more and could possibly be coming through the hoof sole?

Sorry I don't know much about navicular other than what I've read in vet books or online and I don't even know if it can cause the coffin bone to come through. I just figured because the navicular bone helps with the flexor tendon wouldn't the degeneration of the navicular bone cause the tendon to pull on the coffin bone? If I'm wrong in thinking this let me know please.

Also please no saying bad things about these people for changing shoes and whatnot I didn't post to bash them as they are my friends, I just posted for my own knowledge as I was wondering what would cause the hoof to bleed and be purple.

waresbear 12-02-2011 07:26 PM

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I have a horse with navicular. She never bled. She was always sound with proper farrier care. I read a lot about navicular after she was diagnosed, never read anything about bleeding.

Gremmy 12-02-2011 09:47 PM

What you are describing sounds like a very bad case of founder - rotated coffin bone to the point of penetrating the sole, hence the bleeding.

So you say initially they did xrays to confirm navicular syndrome...but the xrays would be to confirm changes to the navicular bone, not coffin bone rotation - that's a whole other can of worms. I suppose it's possible to have both issues, especially with a horse that's been allowed to pound around on her forehand like you describe, but I would imagine that the result would have been EXTREME lameness, certainly not at a level where the horse could compete for another 13 years :? Something's not adding up.

caseymyhorserocks 12-02-2011 09:57 PM

It is URGENT to have your friend get the vet out. It could be a very serious problem with her/his horse.

Cat 12-02-2011 10:52 PM

I agree - this is a serious issue that should have a vet and probably new x-rays to figure out the best course of action.

natisha 12-02-2011 11:05 PM

This doesn't sound good. I hope someone has helped the mare in some way.

Phantomcolt18 12-02-2011 11:38 PM

Gremmy- The info I posted was the info they told me about when she was Xrayed and whatnot. These are the type of people that if they have a horse they expect it to "work" until it can no longer work anymore, so basically running them into the ground.(I don't agree with it at all, the mare should have been retired years ago) Poor mare was limping all this past show season and yet they refused to retire her, instead they buted her up and she still limped with the bute. They were even debating RUNNING her next year!(I'm glad they're not) And yes this mare pounds incredibly hard so it honestly wouldn't surprise me if more damage hasn't taken place and I'm pretty sure it has given the recent discoveries.

Casey- They wont get the vet out until it's basically the horse is about to drop dead. Which I don't understand why, they use the same vet as me and his prices are EXTREMELY generous.

Cat- if it was my mare she would have had Xrays over the years to check everything, but alas she is not mine.

Natisha- The only person out to see the horse when they found her soles completely bruised was the farrier. He never mentioned a thing about the navicular, never brought up the idea of founder, nothing as far as I know. He even suggested putting new shoes on her WITH HER FEET BLEEDING. Which honestly doesn't surprise me. He used to be my farrier and I found out he didn't go to farrier school just one of those guys who learned on his own, I switched real fast and foudn out he was shaping my old man's back feet all wrong. They wont switch though they adore him and have been through too many farriers to count!

Like I said I wish I could do something but she's not mine. I was just wondering what would cause her soles to completely bruise up to a dark purple and bleed when rasped. =(

bubba13 12-02-2011 11:40 PM

Agree with the others. Are we talking about navicular or founder here? Navicular won't cause coffin bone rotation or bleeding. Founder will cause both, as well as the extreme sudden-onset lameness....which can very quickly turn life-threatening.

Gremmy 12-03-2011 12:04 AM

So they've been running her dead lame all this time? I don't know the barrel racing scene, wouldn't a dead lame horse be disqualified? I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around that; so xrays approx 13 years ago showed coffin bone rotation (founder). Bubba, you have a better handle on shoeing and hoof rehab than me...wedges for a rotated coffin bone? What?

So, mare has coffin bone rotation, uncertain about navicular changes, wedges, by some miracle is not only capable of hobbling around but is raced for 13 years, and now at the age of 28, she can't even stand, and she has bleeding soles, suggesting the possibility of the coffin bone having penetrated the sole.

Wow. Honestly Phantomcolt, I know they're your friends and all, but that is outright abuse. I would be making an anonymous call to the proper authorities and getting that mare away from those people and at the very least out of her misery. Founder that severe is bad enough, I'm not sure what the prognosis is when the sole has started to bleed like that (thinking of how bad a simple nail puncture can be, founder will not be the only thing to worry about). Given her age as well... :? poor thing.

Phantomcolt18 12-03-2011 12:05 AM

Bubba- From what they told me when they had Xrays done when she was 15 she was diagnosed with navicular syndrome and a slight rotation of the coffin bone in both front feet (one was more than the other but not by much) Was it possible she foundered before they bought her and the bone stayed rotated?(Sorry I don't know much about founder except how to prevent it and how to spot it early on) Then,recently, a few weeks after they pulled her barrel shoes she wouldn't walk and when she did it was painful so they called the farrier out and he discovered her soles were a dark purple. Then when he rasped her feet they bled(and he was debating nailing shoes onto her bleeding, painful feet ~grr~)

I wish she was my horse, then I'd be able to do something. I'm just trying to use this as a learning experience as it wasn't something I've ever heard of(hoof bleeding while being rasped and dark purple soles.)

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