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-   -   Splash, Tobiano, Buckskin- correct???? (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-colors-genetics/splash-tobiano-buckskin-correct-105514/)

Surayya 12-07-2011 08:52 AM

Splash, Tobiano, Buckskin- correct????
 
OK - So I've never been into paints or pintos- or grays for that matter :wink: (not a fan at all & said I'd never have one)- then Murphy struck (on both accounts :rofl: ) & I ended up with a Pinto filly- I fell for her blue eyes lol.

I got her as a yearling, her sire & dam are both reg Tobiano pintos as is she & I just thought she had blue eyes due to being a pinto/tobiano. I started to look more into the genetics behind blue eyes (I love her blue eyes) & found out about Splash, then found out tobiano doesnt cause blue eyes?:? ...at least that seems to be the consensus anyway :wink: & she shouldnt even really have a blaze if she's simply a tobiano either?
I am thinking I'd like to get a foal out of her when she's older, so her markings/colouration have become more relevant than just pretty blue eyes & fun to ponder over :wink:

So am I correct in thinking she is a Splash, Tobiano, Buckskin (I assume she is smutty/countershaded bay base due to her sire being bay & dam looking flat buckskin, however she does have the much paler tan flanks, muzzle & eye areas that Seal Browns have & goes MUCH darker over winter than in summer, so unless her Seal Brown looking brother is also out of the same sire, I'm sticking with Dk bay rather than having her tested as that test alone will cost approx $100nz)

If in doubt which pattern should I test for to get the clearest idea on her colouration?


As a foal with her dam-
1day old
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2..._7942814_n.jpg
few mths old
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2..._1741678_n.jpg
As a yearling
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2..._1994365_n.jpg
1 & 1/2yrs
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2..._1897559_n.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...6_213453_n.jpg
1yr 10mths
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...59659699_n.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...3_447803_n.jpg

Her dam -
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...15_7567869.jpg
Her sire -
As a foal
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...19_6929882.jpg
...& Now
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...04288204_n.jpg

Surayya 12-07-2011 09:10 AM

Oh, she is also the only foal with blue eyes that either sire or dam has thrown- all their other offspring from all other crossings even those with a different stallion or mare have never produced blue eyes- having said that her sire seems to stamp his off spring strongly with his pattern- ie bit of colour around the flanks & on the head (with some on the chest if they are lucky), along with a big lop sided blaze- the stallion has produced only one foal who is almost 50/50 in pattern/colouration & a much narrower irregular blaze than the others.

NdAppy 12-07-2011 09:46 AM

Tobiano in and of itself does not cause face white. All it means if a horse has face white and is tobiano is that they have another white pattern causing the white.

Splash is though to cause blue eyes, people are on the fence as to whether or not frame also causes blue eyes.

IMO she is a smokey brown rather than a buckskin (brown with cream where buckskin is bay with cream).


Bay is dominant over brown, so a bays can produce browns, but brown does not hide bay. The At (brown) could have come from either sire or dam since they are both carrying agouti.

Chiilaa 12-07-2011 09:51 AM

Something about her is making me think frame for some reason. It could be the 'sideways-ness' of her face white on the side of her head, or the way her blaze wants to slip under her ears like that.

NdAppy 12-07-2011 09:53 AM

Same here Chiilaa. I just came back to say something about frame. :-)

OP have either horses been tested for frame (sire/dam)

BlackCricket 12-07-2011 10:47 AM

I agree with the smokey brown--or brown creme or brownskin, or whatever people are calling it now..lol It seems to vary at the moment..but brown with creme.

Yes splash tobi...and I would want to say frame as well..

Dreamcatcher Arabians 12-07-2011 11:41 AM

Even if you don't test her color, I'd certainly be testing for OLWS.

"
Although the condition lethal white syndrome is also sometimes called "overo lethal white," that term is somewhat a misnomer. Because there are many different ways a horse can be classified as an "overo," and different genes linked to overo patterning, it is not accurate to say the "overo gene" is what "causes" lethal white syndrome.[1] The frame allele is associated with lethal white, but the other genetics, such as horses with sabino and splash alleles, are not."

From Wikipedia

Surayya 12-07-2011 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NdAppy (Post 1257452)
Same here Chiilaa. I just came back to say something about frame. :-)

OP have either horses been tested for frame (sire/dam)

No they havent but both tested positive for Tobiano (Sire is TT)- I know TT can be nO as well-breeder doesnt from what I can tell.

The only reasons that have made me uncertain that she is indeed Seal Brown with creme is that the foals out of this stallion seem to have very little colour on them making it very hard to say for sure if they are simply Dk/sooty bay's or Seal Browns, he has thrown what looks to be a seal brown to a seal brown mare & Cynders dam has had what looks to be a Seal Brown to a Seal Brown Stallion, however it's hard to say for sure with all the white masking everything so well. The other reason was that from what I've seen of the horses confirmed (tested) to be Seal Brown with a copy of creme is that they almost always look rather dark gold over summer, which she does not- she goes pale tan the same as she is in winter- just in winter she also gets much darker like she is counter shaded/ sooty- I guess I'll wait until next yr & see if the Brown test becomes available here, otherwise I will have to get her tested via Pet DNA Services of Arizona.

Since her sire & dam have not been tested for Frame - I will have her tested for it - Yes I know about LWO already (I have LOVED genetic inheritance since I was 8yrs old & have continued to study the inheritance patters of equine coat colours & modifiers for 15-20yrs now- like I say I didnt go 'into' pinto&paint patterns only knew the bare basics which I consider LWO to be a part of).

SarahAnn 12-07-2011 09:12 PM

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amp23 12-07-2011 09:22 PM

I can't really help you out with her coloring, but I'm always interested in hearing about it all from the experts ;) she's gorgeous btw!


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