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dogs on trail rides?

17K views 79 replies 38 participants last post by  Celeste 
#1 ·
hello everyone,

question for all you trailriders, and i apologize because i am not sure really how to ask.

i have been taken my puppy on trail rides around the farms of leash and she is doing great, but she is still not a 100% obedience trained.(we are getting there but just not there yet)

anywho, i want to start hitting the main trail system which is public, and was wondering how much of a bad idea is it to have my dog on a leash while i ride my horse??

pros i thought this would teach puppy to follow more closely when we are going hacking and would follow the leash laws.

but a major con is i dont want the leash/rope that connects puppy to me to get tangled around my horses feet. (however puppy stays a good 4 feet either in front of or directly behind my horse)

now i would like the more experienced trail riders with dogs to shed light on possible training techinques to work both horse and dog while following the leash law. also note horse is very desentized to ropes around his feet, legs, hind, shoulder, etc and is calm when restricted by hobbles.

if this is impossible just tell me... i am trying to find one workout that will suffice for me, horse and puppy all in one shot :)

thanks in advance
 
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#7 ·
wow that seems pretty complicated. I have tried doing that on a bike, Maybe start that way and you will probably wont want to try it. I guess if you can pony a horse you could pony a dog. Maybe try it in an areana first ?
haha first time i did the bike idea i regretted it lol but she has gotten alot better since we have been doing it twice a week ... but i figure that is alittle different since she cant run under me enless she goes in front of me and i run her over ...
 
#3 ·
Kait have you taken her with you on foot? Does she spaz at other dogs?
How big is she, can you haul her up with you if there is danger?
I'd wait until she's SOLID on her commands and been there done that on foot.
I wouldn't do it now and especially since she's a puppy in case she gets scared or attacked by other dogs not on leash. Then you'd have to worry about the other dogs, yours, and your horse.
Do you have her on a retractable leash? I'd keep her by your side instead of on a longer line in front. If she bolts she could get you tangled with the longer line, no matter the horse just add in barking dogs, yelling owners and you gotta problem. It's always the other people I'm worried about!!
I'd also work on getting her used to watching your hand cues. I hardly talk to mine, they have been taught to watch me and my hands. I'd work on her listening to you in a very quiet voice, gasp train her too. That way she learns to listen to your breathing and becomes more focused on smaller cues. Before you take her out make sure she stays at your side only, never in front. Gotta be their boss. When we hike with ours they walk just BEHIND us or just to the side.

Of course I'd like to hear what others have to say. Mine all get to come off leash around the farm, they are all verbal trained, only see a leash when we go to the vet. The only dog I take out with me is my Coydog, but she's obviously different. Hides when people are around and could care less about other dogs.
 
#9 ·
It seems like an awful lot to manage during a ride with the potential for turning into a mess.

I don't think this is comparable to ponying another horse. Just the height difference between the horse and the dog means you'll be fighting all kinds of entanglement problems with the leash.
thats what i think mindlot...any ideas on how to start her training to stay right next to horse without rope/leash??
 
#5 ·
I keep my dog on a leash to walk her across the road, but then let her off.
It's really hard to ride with a dog on a leash. I wouldn't recommend it. Even on a leash I wouldn't take your dog out with your horse unless he knows all the basic commands. If you have a friend with an older trail dog go out with them and their dog. That is how we taught our puppies to follow along on the trail.
 
#6 ·
I'll tell you my own experience with doing the above.... and why I would never do it again.

My puppy was doing well on the ground with commands, but like you I wasn't sure if she was ready to listen when I was up on a horse and wanted to be 100% sure. I tested to rope with and all around my horse, I practiced tossing the rope over his head/rump if the puppy decided to change sides and he wasn't fazed at all.

We went on the trail ride and it went great... The puppy was staying with us, the horse was tolerating the rope and I kept it tight enough the puppy couldn't get herself too mixed up without hitting his feet.

When we got back to the barn however... we were walking the long road to the barn when two barn dogs came running up to play with my puppy. My dog was a little timid around other dogs and two full grown dogs running scared her, so she ran away and they chased. It happened before I could drop the lead rope, but she wrapped herself around all four legs of my horse so tight she was RIGHT next to all of his hooves. The poor horse had all his legs tied together and wasn't even acting worried, but because of the rope pulling he took one step and she was so close to his hooves he landed on her paw.

It was the worst moment ever, she cried SO loudly I thought her leg was broken! (I still give props to that horse, who even being tied up, having me hop off and abandon him for the screaming puppy while two dogs ran amok he just sat and watched) Luckily since she was a puppy her bones were 'flexible' and the vet said she only had a fracture at most, but it was still a terrifying experience for all involved (my puppy took the pain and related it to the dogs, not the horse and was very skittish around dogs for a while after that)

If I were to do it again... I wouldn't. I ended up buying a vibrating e-collar that I trained her with on the ground, and then transferred to the horse so she wouldn't learn to 'get away' with things when I was unable to actually get her.
 
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#12 ·
I'll tell you my own experience with doing the above.... and why I would never do it again.

My puppy was doing well on the ground with commands, but like you I wasn't sure if she was ready to listen when I was up on a horse and wanted to be 100% sure. I tested to rope with and all around my horse, I practiced tossing the rope over his head/rump if the puppy decided to change sides and he wasn't fazed at all.

We went on the trail ride and it went great... The puppy was staying with us, the horse was tolerating the rope and I kept it tight enough the puppy couldn't get herself too mixed up without hitting his feet.

When we got back to the barn however... we were walking the long road to the barn when two barn dogs came running up to play with my puppy. My dog was a little timid around other dogs and two full grown dogs running scared her, so she ran away and they chased. It happened before I could drop the lead rope, but she wrapped herself around all four legs of my horse so tight she was RIGHT next to all of his hooves. The poor horse had all his legs tied together and wasn't even acting worried, but because of the rope pulling he took one step and she was so close to his hooves he landed on her paw.

It was the worst moment ever, she cried SO loudly I thought her leg was broken! (I still give props to that horse, who even being tied up, having me hop off and abandon him for the screaming puppy while two dogs ran amok he just sat and watched) Luckily since she was a puppy her bones were 'flexible' and the vet said she only had a fracture at most, but it was still a terrifying experience for all involved (my puppy took the pain and related it to the dogs, not the horse and was very skittish around dogs for a while after that)

If I were to do it again... I wouldn't. I ended up buying a vibrating e-collar that I trained her with on the ground, and then transferred to the horse so she wouldn't learn to 'get away' with things when I was unable to actually get her.
never thought of the vibrate collar.../i should look into that...
 
#8 ·
thanks fly gap.

she is tiny alittle bigger than a beagle but has the mindset of a border collie already. she is timid with people and will not go up to them nor dogs which is what leads me to want to keep her off leash. however i am more concerned about other dogs and humans as you say which will scare her under my horse.

she is already used to walking in front and behind me while riding and constantly looking at me for the ok to keep going. she will not venture far from me at all..maybe tops 10 yards which if other off leash dogs are out could be problematic.

she has ridden in the saddle with me when she is out to long as she is still young.. an trying to fix her harness so that i can kinda pull her up to the saddle without getting off to put her on the saddle lol

but her being not 100% obedient trained is what scares me alot in this scenario and has me very hesitant to take her off the property.
 
#11 ·
If you can get your hands on an e collar, that would be better.

If she is dog or people agressive, or is very afraid of things you might encounter on the trails, no, don't do it. Her leash skills must be very good, and she has to be listeming to you as well.

Your horse has to be absolutely 100% good with ropes around its body, including the legs. If there is a chance your horse would panic with a rope, don't do it. dogs, especially puppies, can easily get distracted and run to chase the rabbit etc, in a split second your horse has a leash wrapped under it belly, or around its legs.

I occasionally use a leash for very specific situations(crossing a road, agressive dogs) but for the most part she is off leash, wearing an e collar, just incase she needs correction. When she is on a leash, she walks by my horses side, with a relitively short leash. My dog is not dog or people agressive and has a very good recall.
 
#13 ·
not aggressive just unsure...she is still undergoing her socializing ...she is only 4.5 months so she has alot of learning to do.. but i like the collar idea...just dont know the effect that will have on a puppy...dont want to cause damage
 
#15 ·
The harness is a good idea. To get her trained off leash I'd just keep her off. Mine hardly know what a leash is.

Since she's a border you already have a smart puppy! I "gasp" train mine. Start with something she knows is off limits, when she approaches it take a sharp breath in like a small gasp. She should back off and come to you. All of mine are started this way to get them listening to me. This way I never have to yell or talk to them. Then I follow it up with hand motions. Dropped hand which is natural means I'm comfortable and they can walk with me. Hand lifted at the wrist means listen to me, command coming. Bent arm with hand up means stop and stay. If they start to wander I take a sharp breath and they stop and look, most often they hit the ground! LOL!

The only loud verbal commands I use is a deep "here" for come and the only time they are allowed to free roam is when I holler "rabbits!!!" then they get to run around and hunt and act silly!

Yesterday I was talking to my kid and pulled out her 100% spelling test, I gasped and said GOOD JOB! Well, when I gasped my three sleeping dogs jumped three feet in the air and came running from across the room! I have to be careful watching movies too because if I gasp at something they freak out and come running trying to protect me from the big bad tv! LOL!
 
#18 ·
The harness is a good idea. To get her trained off leash I'd just keep her off. Mine hardly know what a leash is.

Since she's a border you already have a smart puppy! I "gasp" train mine. Start with something she knows is off limits, when she approaches it take a sharp breath in like a small gasp. She should back off and come to you. All of mine are started this way to get them listening to me. This way I never have to yell or talk to them. Then I follow it up with hand motions. Dropped hand which is natural means I'm comfortable and they can walk with me. Hand lifted at the wrist means listen to me, command coming. Bent arm with hand up means stop and stay. If they start to wander I take a sharp breath and they stop and look, most often they hit the ground! LOL!

The only loud verbal commands I use is a deep "here" for come and the only time they are allowed to free roam is when I holler "rabbits!!!" then they get to run around and hunt and act silly!

Yesterday I was talking to my kid and pulled out her 100% spelling test, I gasped and said GOOD JOB! Well, when I gasped my three sleeping dogs jumped three feet in the air and came running from across the room! I have to be careful watching movies too because if I gasp at something they freak out and come running trying to protect me from the big bad tv! LOL!

haha flygap i guess i am already on the right track to this gasping training lol... i make any type of deep breath and she comes running lol

i like the rabbits command lol..will have to work that into the program :)
 
#17 ·
Can see lots of potential for trouble here. Will the dog always be on a leash or are you intending to eventually let it free? First thing I thought of was dog tangling up the horse's legs and getting you a free meeting with the ground! Let me add that I have taken my dog out on trails with my horse BUT my dog was extremely obedient. I didn't take her on a leash because she listened so well so that part is out of my experience. I have seen someone ride their horse with their Doberman on a leash but I have no idea how they trained it or how it worked out.

Next thing I thought was brought up by someone else here, other dogs approaching your dog and possibly causing a problem that way. And how about being on trail with other riders and having your dog unintentionally(however well trained and behaved) cause a problem for someone else's horse? I'm sure that this is not what you intend to happen but it is a possibility.

I've ridden with my dog years ago when the trails I rode were less used. I also went alone when I did this. There weren't very many other people, riders, dogs, etc. Would I do it again now? No. Where I go there are just too many things that could cause a problem. Do I want to go riding with someone who brings their dog along too, not really. I have enough trouble focusing on my own riding to have to watch out for someone else's dog.

I'm sure you'll consider all sides to this question, these are just my own thoughts on it so please take it as such and not as if I am condemning you for considering it because that is not my intention.
 
#20 ·
haha mypets don't worry i am trying to get all pros and cons to this situtation... eventually she will be off leash while riding but that wont be until she is 100% trained. the leash i figured would be the training tool to link me to her for correction. however someone here mentioned vibrate collar which would help inthat manner.

but other people and there dogs is my concern. my horse is fine with dogs until they get up in his face and try to bite him... he will retailate as he has more fight then flight instincts... so if any dogs came running at my puppy that means they are running towards my horse and once he sees that he will charge them without hestiation. which is another reason i dont want her on leash in the case she freaks and runs backwards more than likely my horse willpush to attack the animal coming at us.

but i am leaning to just continue training her on ground and riding around farm with puppy until i have her 100% . another thing you mentioned someone riding with a doberman on a leash... i bet the extra height of that dog helped so it wouldnt get tangled under horse as much lol... a beagle sized dog will be screwed hahaha
 
#21 ·
It's a bit much to cover here, but you might like to get in touch with some people who do field trials with horses (vs the strickly dog field trials). Of course you would be looking at just the training portion that involved training the horses and dogs working together and not the competition training that is mostly for the dogs.

Dogs and horse can do quite well together. The only problem I've had so far was years ago I had a Malamute that could be very agressive towards other dogs (he wanted to be the alpha male for ever canine alive). Holding him on a lead was difficult then. I over came it by teaching him to jump into the saddle with me so I could keep him there until we had passed any dogs we encountered. It was a bit much and my QH was the only one I could ride with him, since the other horses wouldn't deal with him jumping up into the saddle.
Other dogs I've had did well and would basically heel along side the horse as if we were taking a walk, but I kept them on a lead unless we were just riding around the farm.
And of course there's the potential problem that's already been mentioned for when other dogs are encountered and how they will act. You can't always just trot off, since they will often follow. Things are seldom easy.
 
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#23 ·
I did this for the first time 2 days ago. I was going to a tradeday and my dog went with me. its about 3 miles on trails and 1 1/2 on hardtop, then a short dirt road. when we were close i put him on a leash because there are alot of dogs there. he done alright because he is so good on a leash when im on the ground but he wanted to walk alittle to close to my horse. and he had to switch sides because he always walks on my right side and he was on the left. he went behind her so it was no problem. If he would have went underneth her i would have just droped the rope. my horse doesnt care what ya do although she does hate dogs but she ushally wont be aggresive to other animals while i'm on her. doing that could be very dangerous though. get your dog very well leash trained first then do it from your horse and be sure shes comfortable that close to your horse. when we are on hard top he's ushally off the road but when a vehicle comes i make him get on the inside away from the car beside me and hold my hand down like i would if i had a leash, but there is no leash and he stays. oh and my horse will neck rein so its easy with one hand, the dog is also 8 months old.
Can someone tell me more about the vibrating collar? i'v never heard of it before and sounds like it would be muuch help. My dog gets destracted alot and that would be a much easyer way to get his mind off other things.
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#24 ·
I'd be careful about dropping the lead too.. it might turn okay 90% of the time, but I've also seen a dog stepped on when the horse stepped on the lead and the dog got trapped.

For vibrating collars, I recommend Dogtra or Tritronics (Tritonics is a little more expensive though). Don't buy a cheap brand as it won't be worth it in the long run (battery life, range, consistency and overall length of life). Vibration Collars from Dogtra. are some of there's new, expensive but worth it.

Mine is an electric/vibrating but I just use the vibrating option. The collar is completely waterproof, which is good because my dog likes to go swim in the creek, and the remote is mostly waterproof (for rain). I bought mine used for $75 and I have not regretted it, it's been a life saver.
 
#28 ·
It was the only way I could afford to take him with me when riding. Otherwise he'd be forcing any dog that came out to "submit". He was 115+ lbs of "I'm the Alpha dog", but he was great with people and other animals.
Those who saw it liked to have him do it again (and again sometimes). My white Malamute jumping into the saddle on my white QH mare. She was the real angel and would stop and stand for him to leap onto the saddle. When he first was learning to do it he about knocked me out of the saddle couple of times. Not really the most comfortable situation either. He was so large he would be squeezed in between my abdomen and the pommel. I couldn't stand it for more than about 0.1 of a mile. It's not something I'd recommend with such a large dog. Today I'd have just secured him at home.
Tried to teach our TW to let him do it, but that was not a pretty sight. I gave up. Figured the one horse was enough. But the TW was the most comfortable riding horse we had, so it would have been nice. Just couldn't let the dog come unless I was riding my QH.
 
#26 ·
If your horse isn't used to having dogs right under their feet, I would not suggest doing this. I did use this method when my dog was a puppy; however, the horse I used was a foxhunter and always paid attention to where the dog was. There are too many risks involved.

What I suggest doing is start turning your horse out with your dog attached to a leash walking along side of you. This way, the dog and horse get used being close together before you are on the horse.
 
#27 ·
If your horse isn't used to having dogs right under their feet, I would not suggest doing this. I did use this method when my dog was a puppy; however, the horse I used was a foxhunter and always paid attention to where the dog was. There are too many risks involved.

What I suggest doing is start turning your horse out with your dog attached to a leash walking along side of you. This way, the dog and horse get used being close together before you are on the horse.
they are very comfortable with eachother...the puppy runs around his feet while he is eating and in the field and the 3 times i have taken puppy out on the small rides around the neighboring farms my horse will pay attention to where she is ...accouple of time i thought she was a gonner but my horse walked around her and made sure not to step on her...
so i guess thats a plus...
 
#29 ·
Wow, that's crazy. I've seen people ride with a puppy, but a big ol' malamute -no way.
Kait-I don't have any tricks. Sorry. I dismount every time I let the dog on and off the leash. My dogs obey basic commands and the horses are used to dogs.
My dogs were for the most part raised around horses, and have a healthy respect for them and their feet. It would have be something pretty terrifying for them to go under the horse. I also don't ride on high traffic trails with the dog.
I like the idea of the vibrating collar. I'll have to get one of those.
 
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#30 ·
A lot of quail hunters around here say that they exercise their dogs from horseback using a roading harness.

Roading Harness

I wouldn't try this from my horse if you said you would shoot me otherwise. The shooting death might be less painful than the certain death that "psycho princess arab" would kill me with.

I often take my dog with me off leash. I have had dogs in the past that stayed perfectly with the horse. That is awesome because they warn you of "spooks" in the road before you get to them. The dog that I have now is not so great with it. She gets distracted, wanders into the woods, and then remembers how much she loves me; she charges wildly out of the bushes and scares the devil out of my horse. Since she doesn't stay right with me, I can't take her unless it is on our property and far away from the highway.
 
#33 ·
Some friends I ride with always have several rescue dogs. It always seems like they are afraid to cross the rivers. All the horses, riders and the other menagerie of dogs gte across. But we always have one that somebody has to go back, catch and carry across in their saddle or if bigger, Throw them in the river and make them swim.

I'm grateful my friends bring their collection of dogs. That run all around and under foot and my horses have become very accustomed to dog being nearby.
 
#34 ·
I used to take my Rottweiler trail riding with me all the time - never used a leash on him while I was in the saddle. IMO, that's just asking for disaster.

I took him through about five levels of formal obedience training (including getting the CGC and ATTS certificates) and practiced the same basic obedience commands (heel, sit, down, stay, come) while I rode in an enclosed area before taking him "out" with me.

He was a really, really awesome trail dog - my horse seemed to enjoy the company, too, since we often rode out alone.

It helps that Rotties are working dogs, and one of the jobs they were bred to do was driving, and he LOVED his "job." Even when we ran into other trail users, wildlife, other dogs, etc. he never left my horse's side unless I actually told him to. On one occasion, I knew there was a loose dog ahead so I had my boy "sit" and "stay" out of sight while I rode on ahead, chased the loose dog back to its house, and then went back and collected my own dog (about 100 feet away) before continuing on.

The biggest thing with taking ANY dog out in public is to be mindful and courteous of other people. Not everyone likes dogs, not every horse does either.

It is your job, and your responsibility, to properly train and socialize your dog. As much as I like dogs, I don't like it when people (hikers, or other horse-people) bring unruly dogs with them and just let them run free. In fact, if someone's loose dog does run up to my horse and starts circling, tryin to nip at his legs, etc. I will politely ask the dog's owner if they would come and collect the dog - or, if they'd prefer, my horse would kick the dog back to them. That usually gets the point across.

If your dog does not have a reliable "recall," it's not ready to be off-leash in a public area.

(this applies to children, too :lol:)
 
#35 ·
Completely agree with Jolly Badger on all points.

I have a nearly-two-year-old crossbred sighthound. Her initial reaction to anything running away from her is to chase it, and running is her great love. For all of her life, we've been planning a distance-ride through South America, and from December to March of this year we were in Chile making initial preparations. For Delta, this was her first sustained period of being around horses and we really went back to obedience 101, teaching correct behaviour around livestock (chickens are fascinating, you know?), teaching that 'here' still means the same thing even when the command is given from the back of a horse, etc. etc.
We worked on her 'side' command for when we're on public roads, on her 'wait' command to stop her getting too far up ahead, and her 'no' command for forestalling her chasing tendencies or stopping her crossing someone's boundary line.
However, we've got an issue with feral or semi-feral dogs, and guard dogs. Chile is the land of stray and free-running canines, and Delta has had to learn to deal with these animals too - her initial reaction with all dogs is 'PLAY!' but she's had to learn to ignore that reaction because many of these dogs have simply had the play trained out of them. They guard or they chase. Since we're mounted on two horses and leading two others, we can't always be there to get Delta out of problems so we need her to be able to make her own decisions, including a threat if necessary. I have ridden down a chasing dog on occasion because quite simply a number of chasing dogs starts having a pack mentality and when the target is a littler dog, the odds are very unbalanced. We are noticing that with time and repeated commands, Delta is starting to walk closer and closer to the horses' legs when we pass roaming dogs - this seems to put the potential chaser off a bit. It also helps that she's got the sighthound turn of speed and so she can outrun most dogs.
However, we're still working on all of this (she's still an adolescent, after all) and the time that she thought that chasing a herd of geese towards the horses was a good idea is still etched in my memory...
 
#36 ·
I used to take my Rottweiler trail riding with me all the time - never used a leash on him while I was in the saddle. IMO, that's just asking for disaster.
I took him through about five levels of formal obedience training (including getting the CGC and ATTS certificates) and practiced the same basic obedience commands (heel, sit, down, stay, come) while I rode in an enclosed area before taking him "out" with me.
He was a really, really awesome trail dog - my horse seemed to enjoy the company, too, since we often rode out alone.




Wow, that was one awesome Rottie! Good job!
 
#37 ·
I am going on a trail ride next weekend, that specifically says "no dogs"! I guess something had happened last year at this ride with a dog, so they are saying no more.
I've seen others that say dogs must be on leash at all times, even when riding.
If i were riding with others, i would just leave mine at home, easier that way, just in case something happens
 
#38 ·
I think using a leash is a horrible idea...that's just an accident waiting to happen. You have to know your dog. If you think they may run off, then it's probably best not to take them. I bring my Golden and Rott (but not at the same time)- they are very good about staying right with me and keeping out of my horse's path. My Jack Russell, however, stays home for rides because he likes to chase things and has a bit of a complex. If you can walk your dog successfully without a leash and they listen to you, it's probably safe to bring them riding.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Our dog comes with us on trail rides and isn't leashed. He's sort of a velcro dog. Black and tan, heeler and corgi. 95% of the time he stays right behind the last horse. He doesn't chase deer, rabbits, squirrels unless he actually stumbles upon them. Most of the time they are long gone before he gets there. He comes like a champ. 100% reliable. The only problem we have is when we meet hikers he will circle out 50 feet around them. He's a rescue and after 4 years he is STILL wary of strangers. We have a ton of deer at home and I have called him off a deer chase. He was very badly abused before we got him and has an embedded collar scar. I can't take any credit for his training - He can't seem to learn anything other than come and sit and those he already knew. He LOVES trail rides and walks (he goes off leash) and he stays with us like glue. I think he's actually scared we'll leave him! LOL
 
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#41 · (Edited)
Our dog comes with us on trail rides and isn't leashed. He's sort of a velcro dog. Black and tan, heeler and corgi. 95% of the time he stays right behind the last horse. He doesn't chase deer, rabbits, squirrels unless he actually stumbles upon them. Most of the time they are long gone before he gets there. He comes like a champ. 100% reliable.
I envy people like you. We have had several dogs over the years (have 3 now) and were never able to get a recall I was completely confident with. We have done agility, obedience and all kinds of activities/classes. Our dogs are very well trained, but we could never get that 100% recall.

Right now, we have a lab who is 100% most of the time... until he sees a bird, car, person, other dog... you name it.(Not to mention the possibility of a female in heat, where I think ANY recall would breakdown). Our corgi mix is worse - she picks up a scent and will disappear for hours. Our third dog (mutt) is probably 90%, but is also very protective so I wouldn't trust her loose with strangers approaching. The lab or mutt I would take trail riding only if I was on a secluded trail without the chance of running into people or being near a roadway.

Some years back I visited Vancouver, BC. This is a very dog-friendly city. I was amazed at how many people were walking through the busy city with unleashed dogs. The dogs were not distracted by any of the hustle and bustle - they just followed at their owners side as if they were the only two lifeforms around. Again, I envy people who can train their dogs like this.
 
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