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-   -   Sold my old mare not knowing she was in foal, what is the proper etiquette for this? (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/sold-my-old-mare-not-knowing-121133/)

GhostwindAppaloosa 04-24-2012 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allison Finch (Post 1469970)
That said, I would wait until it becomes a rude gangly yearling and offer a small price to take it off their hands.

LOL! very true :)

TBlue98 04-24-2012 09:26 AM

It posted twice for some reason, novice mistake I guess :)

TBlue98 04-24-2012 09:27 AM

It posted twice for some reason, novice mistake I guess :)

TBlue98 04-24-2012 09:30 AM

It is posting at the beginning and I want this at the end. My apologies.

TBlue98 04-24-2012 09:31 AM

Sorry it posted twice, not sure what's going on.

TBlue98 04-24-2012 09:35 AM

Trying to post at the end. Will try one more time....

TBlue98 04-24-2012 09:45 AM

This was a "handshake/friend" type of deal so my old mare could live out the rest of her delicate life in a wonderful place while bringing smiles to my friends little kids. So I didn't feel right asking anything in return, plus, this little foal was a surprise to us all. For sure wouldn’t want to ask them to pay for my stud horse paperwork. That’s kind of what I was referring to when I commented about expecting a stud fee. I guess what I should have said was I would have just appreciated an offer of some sort to help out, simply because I felt I was giving them a good deal. But I see now legally that is wrong so glad I didn't. This is also a little of where my "dealing with friends" comment came from. Sort of like going into business with family or friends, it usually doesn't work out too well sometimes LOL. Always have something in writing.

I’m not a horse trader nor do I breed and sell horses. But had I known my 19 year old mare was bred I would have never let her go to them until after it was born and we would have made arrangements for me to keep the foal. They know how much she and my now gelding meant to me. But tough luck for me, that is my loss.

The mare has now passed away unfortunately. Some of what I didn't disclose because I didn’t feel it was relevant to my original post. However, maybe I should have included it and asked, given my situation, would you offer your friend the foal? What I should have asked along with, did I handle the situation correctly from the very beginning is, do I even have any right to a claim him now. But I see now I’m basically grasping at a loss cause and my apologies for not simply stating this first off, but I didn't want to go into all the drama of the situation.

But since I’ve opened myself up to this I will continue on with the rest of the story. I didn’t include that I took the mare back when it was time for him to be weaned. She was then 20 and he was rearing up on her, being a colt and needing to be weaned. So in her best interest I offered to bring her back home for safe keeping. After all, they never rode her anymore. But I would have let them whenever they wanted to. But she later coliced and I took her to the vet. Her stomach was twisted where the only option was surgery and with her age and the fact that her chances of even surviving the surgery or even recovery, knowing she had lived a long, happy life I called my friend with the bad news and we reluctantly let her go. Given the fact she was my horse since she was 7 and that she was in my care when she coliced I took care of the $400 vet bill. In hind-sight, how were we to know what the future was to hold. We live and learn. I just try to treat others the way I would want to be treated. My initial forum comes now that he is almost 2 years old and they do nothing with him. Is it appropriate to even ask to have him back? I realize I would need to offer to purchase him and not expect they give him to me legally. I understand now that I don’t even have a reasonable argument in the situation. However, they tell me how much of a handful he is. I want to say, welcome to having horses! I’ve offered to take him and work with him but they like seeing him in their pasture and being able to feed and pet him. The perfect life I wanted for my old mare, yet here we are, she is gone and they have her yearling who needs attention they don't know how to give. But, I don’t want to continue to offer more to them unless ultimately I can end up with him now, so I’m not sure how to handle it but at least I know I handled it right from the start. I know it’s basically a lost cause at this point and something I need to move on from.

After reading all this I feel I did the right thing, and I'm lucky it didn't go bad in the fact they could have came after me for selling them a bred mare after initially only wanting a companion horse. They never would have wanted a foal but when it was with her in the stall that morning they couldn’t have been happier. My issue was first to be sure I handled my responsibilities correctly after it was born. (Hence my reason for even posting on here). My difficulty with it was the principal of the situation. Even with it being a friendly transaction of my old mare that I owned the majority of her life who was bred to my horse when I owned her and a young horse going to waste….Regardless, I realize now it is my loss.
Bottom line is, no matter if it’s a friend or a stranger and no matter how old or young, always write up an agreement and do a vet check, because you never know.
I would have never imagined she would ever foal. All is well now and there are no hard feelings except they have a handful and I just would like to see it be trained and made into something and they have no desire to do so. After all, he had a great mother, and his sire, the youngster I own that is now a young gelding is the best horse on our place. But, you all have helped me realize that I can't worry about something that is not mine to worry about. And they know if they ever sell him I have first dibbs. Basically I've realized that's all I can hope for.

Sorry for any confusion. My first time at posting in a forum and didn’t feel the need to go into unnecessary aspects when all I wanted to know is how to handle the situation of selling a mare while unknowingly being bred. After all, it’s an embarrassing situation as far as I’m concerned. But thanks everyone for your insight, it has helped me to know I’ve done all I can and just to let it go. Hopefully someone will learn from my mistakes, as I have.

TBlue98 04-24-2012 10:47 AM

Sold my old mare not knowing she was in foal, what is the proper etiquette for this?
 
I'm not a professional breeder; I simply love and enjoy my horses. I understand it takes a lot to care for and raise horses. So please don't pre-judge me as this was merely an honest mistake and I'm just curious as to how others would have handled it.

To give you the background, I had an old mare that my parents got me when she was 7. She was very dear to me and when I had to retire her from barrel racing my family spent lots of money trying to get her bred because she had good bloodlines and had a trainer in mind to send it to. She had some problems and we were unable to raise a foal out of her. So we kept her for my nieces and nephews to have for a pleasure riding horse. Several years later when she was 19 we bought a weanling. At the time, stud colt, which we was not planning on keeping a stud because we don't have the facilities or the means to promote and stand a stud. Before he was old enough to cut he had gotten out with her while we were away and had someone looking after them. We didn’t think anything of it because after all, she was never able to be bred. Months went on and when he was old enough we got him cut. She was always an easy keeper, always fat so no sign or even a thought of her being bred, obviously. Why would that even cross our mind. Then a friend of mine wanted to buy my old mare for her kids and grandkids. They were very well off and I felt they would take good care of her and let her live out the rest of her life happy and healthy. A couple months later, lo and behold, she had a foal! We was all very surprised yet I was very distraught over it because I knew with her blood lines and the young horse of ours that the foal was out of whom we just gelded, it would be a nice horse. After all, here we spent lots of money trying to raise a foal out of her, talk about bad luck for us.

So out of curiosity, how that is typically handled. Like I said, I don't breed and sell horses; we have them as companions and enjoy them for ourselves. But with this being a "friend" situation, I didn't take any legal action or ask for the colt back. I feel I should have at least gotten a stud fee, but not ever standing a stud I had no idea what to charge. I looked at the situation as though my horse got out, accidently bred her so it was my fault, my loss. But, given the fact that both my old mare and our new young horse were special to us and this happened when I still owned her, it would have been nice to at least been offered the colt back. After all, they only wanted my old mare as a companion for the kids to pleasure ride and was sold an old, open mare with no intentions of ever wanting a foal. So without being criticized too much, I'm curious to know how others would have handled this.

Now our friends have this beautiful colt that they can't do anything with and won't let me help them work with it and they love it so much I can't bring myself to ask for it or even offer to buy it back. I feel it’s just going to go to waste and grow up to be nothing but a pasture ornament. I guess at least it will be fed and well taken care of the rest of its life. I just feel like I should have been offered the foal but maybe I'm mistaken, that's why I'm posting this.

Thank you for your advice.

Ripper 04-24-2012 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBlue98 (Post 1469613)
I'm not a professional breeder; I simply love and enjoy my horses. I understand it takes a lot to care for and raise horses. So please don't pre-judge me as this was merely an honest mistake and I'm just curious as to how others would have handled it.

To give you the background, I had an old mare that my parents got me when she was 7. She was very dear to me and when I had to retire her from barrel racing my family spent lots of money trying to get her bred because she had good bloodlines and had a trainer in mind to send it to. She had some problems and we were unable to raise a foal out of her. So we kept her for my nieces and nephews to have for a pleasure riding horse. Several years later when she was 19 we bought a weanling. At the time, stud colt, which we was not planning on keeping a stud because we don't have the facilities or the means to promote and stand a stud. Before he was old enough to cut he had gotten out with her while we were away and had someone looking after them. We didn’t think anything of it because after all, she was never able to be bred. Months went on and when he was old enough we got him cut. She was always an easy keeper, always fat so no sign or even a thought of her being bred, obviously. Why would that even cross our mind. Then a friend of mine wanted to buy my old mare for her kids and grandkids. They were very well off and I felt they would take good care of her and let her live out the rest of her life happy and healthy. A couple months later, lo and behold, she had a foal! We was all very surprised yet I was very distraught over it because I knew with her blood lines and the young horse of ours that the foal was out of whom we just gelded, it would be a nice horse. After all, here we spent lots of money trying to raise a foal out of her, talk about bad luck for us.

So out of curiosity, how that is typically handled. Like I said, I don't breed and sell horses; we have them as companions and enjoy them for ourselves. But with this being a "friend" situation, I didn't take any legal action or ask for the colt back. I feel I should have at least gotten a stud fee, but not ever standing a stud I had no idea what to charge. I looked at the situation as though my horse got out, accidently bred her so it was my fault, my loss. But, given the fact that both my old mare and our new young horse were special to us and this happened when I still owned her, it would have been nice to at least been offered the colt back. After all, they only wanted my old mare as a companion for the kids to pleasure ride and was sold an old, open mare with no intentions of ever wanting a foal. So without being criticized too much, I'm curious to know how others would have handled this.

Now our friends have this beautiful colt that they can't do anything with and won't let me help them work with it and they love it so much I can't bring myself to ask for it or even offer to buy it back. I feel it’s just going to go to waste and grow up to be nothing but a pasture ornament. I guess at least it will be fed and well taken care of the rest of its life. I just feel like I should have been offered the foal but maybe I'm mistaken, that's why I'm posting this.

Thank you for your advice.

The foal belongs to the new owner of the mare.

If there are papers involved....you own them a breeding certificate.

themacpack 04-24-2012 10:54 AM

You have no claim to the foal and they were under no obligation to offer you such.


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