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Cinnys Whinny 04-25-2012 04:57 PM

Red Carrier?
 
I'm a little confused. I've been playing with the color calculator online Color Calculator and I have a couple of questions.

When you put in that a horse is a bay it asks if it is a red carrier. If the horse has a chestnut parent or grandparent, does that make it a red carrier? How can you find out if a horse is a red carrier without an actual genetics test, is there a way to tell from it's parentage?

Same question goes to Agouti.... is there any signs that it is an agouti carrier either in it's coloring or by the coloring in it's parentage?

I just want to understand the whole gentics thing a bit more.

CLaPorte432 04-25-2012 05:01 PM

893 Attachment(s)
Yes, a chesnut horse is always e/e. A bay horse can be E/e or E/E which is homozygous black. If either the dam or sire is chestnut, the foal with have at least one copy of the e depending on what the other mate is.

So if you have a bay foal. Dam is chesnut, e/e and sire is E/E then your foal will be E/e and the little e indicates a red carrier.

I hope that all made sense...

As for agouti, aa/aa is a black horse. If you have a Aa/aa or Aa/Aa horse, it will be bay (if the horse is E/e or E/E). Agouti is hidden by chestnut though so its nearly I possible to tell the agouti status of a chestnut horse since its not expressed on red, unless you know the sire and dam agouti status...then you might be able to know...

This link helped me tremendously...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_coat_color_genetics

Poseidon 04-26-2012 12:23 AM

CLaPorte got most of it. I don't know Cinny's pedigree or I'd use him for an example, if possible. Instead, I will use mine.

Abby is a buckskin, so black based. Her dam is also buckskin, but her sire is a palomino. Since black is dominant and buckskin is black based, Abby must have at least one copy of Extention, so E_. Palomino is red based, so no extension and homozygous red: ee. Abby would be Ee without having to test her.

If that makes sense. :?

For other genetic reading and queries, I would recommend http://grullablue.com/colorpages.htm

Cinnys Whinny 04-26-2012 12:53 AM

I was thinking of a bay mare.

Sire is a bay,
sire's sire is sorrel (out of a sorrelXbay)
sire's dam is bay (out of bayXsor)

Dam is unknown
Dam's Sire is Bay (out of a brownXbay)
Dam's Dam is unknown (out of a bayXunknown)

So, my guess is that she is Bay, either Ee/Aa or Ee/AA

Does this sound correct? Just seeing if I am getting it.

In Cinny's Case...

Cinny is registered as black.

His Sire is Black Overo
His sire's sire is black overo (out of black overoXblack)
His sire's Dam is black overo (out of black overoXbrown overo)

His Dam is solid sorrel
His Dam's Sire is solid sorrel (out of sorrelXsorrel)
His Dam's Dam is unknown out of (sorrel sabinoXunknown)

I'm guessing Cinny is black but is also a red carrier and agouti carrier so if he weren't gelded there would be a great possibility that his progeny might be black, bay or sorrel depending on the dam. With a homozygous silver dam he could also have progeny of silver black or silver bay, more different colors with heterozygos silver dam.

Poseidon 04-26-2012 12:58 AM

The mare could possibly be EE, but since her dam is unknown she would be E_. Just a black carrier, for sure, due to her being bay. However, testing would be required for her.

Cinny would be Ee because he's black, but has one red parent. As for agouti, you would have to test him. His sire is black, therefore no agouti. But since agouti has no way of presenting itself on a red horse, his dam could be an agouti carrier. Buuut since her parents are both sorrel, it would really be impossible to tell.

Chiilaa 04-26-2012 12:59 AM

Cinny can't be a black horse and carry agouti. Only a red horse can carry agouti. If a black horse has agouti, they are bay, brown or wild bay, and no longer black.

Poseidon 04-26-2012 01:10 AM

Wow. What the hell am I drinking? Did I really just write that? How did I manage to forget Cinny is black in the time it took me to write one sentence? I'm just going to stop talking for the night..

Cinnys Whinny 04-26-2012 01:16 AM

As far as I know, Cinny has never been tested for his color. I know what his parentage is, and I know he looks black half the year. He then fades to a beautiful bay....with black legs. Most people think he is a bay at the end of summer. So I don't know for sure. I guess the only way to tell would be to actually test him, but with a gelding it's sort of a moot point.

Chiilaa 04-26-2012 01:19 AM

He is definitely black. He fades in the summer. I have looked at the pics, and am 100% certain he is not bay or brown, but is indeed black.

Cinnys Whinny 04-26-2012 01:40 AM

So he probably is a red carrier, but not agouti...got it


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