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Army wife 04-29-2012 08:30 AM

Help with color questions!!
3 Attachment(s)
So, I have two color questions. First is my mare, she is registered as a chestnut roan, but it's almost as if she never fully "roaned" out. She's not sabino or rabicano that I can tell. She has even white hair distribution throughout her body. But nothing below her knees!! And only a little amount of roaning on her face (nothing near the eyes or on the ears.) The second is about my filly. I bred my mare (same one) to a "sooty palomino." My filly came out a little on the pale side, but when she shed her foal coat, her butt, armpits, knees and the inside of her hind legs came in with quite a bit of black (like her sire.) She's almost two now, and has black coming in her mane and tail, a few little black spots, but she has never once shed out like that again. My two questions: Does the sooty gene sometimes show up later? And is there such thing as a minimally expressed roan? (I can not get to the bottom of either questions!) Please help!!
In the photos below, you can kinda see how much roaning my mare has, you can also see how my filly started out, and how she shed her foal coat.

Chiilaa 04-29-2012 08:34 AM

Filly first, as that is easiest. Yes, sooty generally shows up after the foal sheds for the first time. It changes seasonally a lot - some years she might be quite pale, others quite dark. Sooty can do all sorts of fun things.

As for the mare - does she change colour seasonally? Is the white visible all year round?

Army wife 04-29-2012 07:36 PM

Yes my mare changes seasonally. She's a lot darker and more solid in the winter, though you can still see white in her, just not as much. When she sheds out in the spring is when it is most obvious. So, your saying that my filly could shed out sooty at any time in her life? It's not an every year kinda thing? The only horse I know that is sooty is her sire, and he seemed to get darker each year. But I do remember him being light when he was young like she is. Only difference, whenever he got bit or scraped, his foal coat came in solid black in those spots, sort of like a roan.

Chiilaa 04-29-2012 08:37 PM

Yup. Sooty can change lots from year to year, and from season to season. It will be fun to watch her :-)

I think the mare is indeed a minimal roan.

Army wife 04-29-2012 10:28 PM

Wow, thank you for your help! Do you have a lot of experience with the sooty gene? Also, my mare's dam is gray, sire palomino. I know that one of them has to either be a roan or carry the roan gene for her to be a "true roan" correct? If so, how then is it possible she could have so much roaning without having one full roan parent. Also, she is 12 so I know she is not gray, because she would have grayed out by now and she doesn't get lighter each year.

Chiilaa 04-29-2012 11:23 PM

Grey masks all colour so that parent could have been roan. Think of grey like a blanket - the horse has all the genetics to be any colour in the horse world, but the grey covers it up so we can't see it. Without testing, there is usually no way to tell if a greying horse is roan aswell - both grey and roan have similar phases, and grey can look a lot like roan in the early years. Her grey parent could have been roan and no one ever know.

Add into that, palomino is a really pale colour. It is not unusual for roan to not be picked up on paler colours. The following stallion is tested as roan, which is not the phenotype he presents.

Army wife 04-30-2012 03:50 AM

Weird!!! Her dam was 100% arab, so i know she wasn't a roan but a true gray. Her sire is a QH, but he's pretty light, so I guess this could be the case :) He also threw one blue roan, not sure what the dam was though. Other then that, he threw pali's and buckskins from what I understand. Thank you!!! Do you know of any other minimally expressed roans you could show me? Other then this stud.

Chiilaa 04-30-2012 03:57 AM

This is the palomino above's sire, who has to be a roan too.

This is his sire's dam, who also has to be roan.
Pocos Red Jessica Quarter Horse

Army wife 04-30-2012 04:04 AM

I love that website!!! I was actually just going to get on it and look up my mares sire and see if i can find any roans. So, are you sure the mare had to be roan? Couldn't have been this studs sire?

Chiilaa 04-30-2012 04:38 AM

Olenas King Texas Quarter Horse

That is the original palomino's pedigree. As you can see, the only roan in his pedigree is the granddam's sire.

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