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-   -   Farrier was out today - reset some shoes, set new shoes - thoughts? (http://www.horseforum.com/hoof-care/farrier-out-today-reset-some-shoes-123114/)

crimsonsky 05-11-2012 05:28 PM

Farrier was out today - reset some shoes, set new shoes - thoughts?
 
so my mare was shod 8 weeks ago and the farrier was out today to trim and set new shoes. i think she's doing great and after having radiographs of her front feet done the farrier had a much better idea of what we're working with. here are her feet after having the shoes pulled and then all complete with new shoes set. i'd love any thoughts from people as to how her feet are looking.

my gelding was also shod today. i've had a hard time finding a farrier who can do anything for him (not that he has bad feet but he has rather flat feet and it seems people here don't really know what to do with that? *shrug*) so he was trimmed and set with shoes today for the first time in many moons. this is his first trim in probably 3-4 months (i know - bad me!) and his first time in shoes in ~5 years.

because there are so many pictures i've uploaded them to photobucket and they can be seen here: photobucket.com/crimsonmelonz_farrier_visit_11_may_2012

Rascaholic 05-12-2012 09:42 AM

Good lord! I am not a professional, or even an amateur for that matter so excuse my reaction. I'll hush and let someone who knows what they are doing critique the tootsies.

*shakes head*

Skyseternalangel 05-12-2012 09:52 AM

I'm no professional either but honestly I would re-evaluate your farrier. If Sky's feet looked like that I'd be tempted to smack someone.

It looks like he's got a lot of flaring going on and some interesting angles.

I'm going to sit tight and see what the professionals say.

crimsonsky 05-12-2012 10:41 AM

generally i would agree that if this was the best the farrier could do after some time of working with "nice" feet, then yes i would need a new farrier. however, seeing as the mare (the appy with the petite feet) is being shod for the second time since i bought her back, we are working on correcting all the bad work done to her in the past two years. the gelding hasn't had a decent trim in months because the farrier i was using got into an accident and totaled his truck. being that he's in his 70's he's pretty much decommissioned currently. this farrier that i'm using now came recommended by my vet who i trust. given what he's working with, i think he's done a good job. i'd like to see what other more knowledgeable people have to say about how the hooves should progress going forward.

again - he was NOT working with "nice" hooves to start with so this is a post for posterity basically.

Skyseternalangel 05-12-2012 10:47 AM

Yeah it does take a lot of time and trimmings for a hoof to begin to blossom and get where it needs to be. Can't move too fast or it could really cause more trouble than it's worth.

But yeah I am definitely no professional; Horseman56 or Loosie or bntnail or Amazin Caucasin will have much better views on the hoof status than I :)

loosie 05-14-2012 03:00 AM

Don't think it's a terrible job on your black horse, but he hasn't done your appy any favours at all. High heels are a major issue, along with leaving stretched toes, esp on that very clubby one. While heels may/should not be lowered drastically or quickly, I think leaving them go that long between trims also will be causing the farrier to have to chase his tail a bit. Little & often would be better.

crimsonsky 05-14-2012 12:58 PM

can you explain what you mean by the heels? the radiographs show her to be in alignment with how her bone structure is so i would imagine lowering the heels would be more of a detriment than a benefit? maybe i'm REALLY misunderstanding all of this. :/

crimsonsky 05-14-2012 01:03 PM

so this is the club foot after having the last shoe pulled and prior to any trim, etc.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...202012/040.jpg

and then this is it after - where you can see based on the angles and nail holes that the toe was brought back and the heel was brought down some but not a lot seeing as she's so upright to start.

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...202012/147.jpg

i'll sit down when i get home tonight and try to figure out how to save the radiographs to a format i can upload to photobucket so you can see what the bones/angles/etc look like too.

loosie 05-14-2012 11:40 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonsky (Post 1499478)
can you explain what you mean by the heels? the radiographs show her to be in alignment with how her bone structure is so i would imagine lowering the heels would be more of a detriment than a benefit? maybe i'm REALLY misunderstanding all of this. :/

Firstly, I don't quite get what 'alignment' you speak of, as it looks out to me. Would be interested to see the rads, or for you to explain further? Which bits, aligned? In relation to hoof capsules or not? Was the dorsal wall & sole plane marked for the rads?

Back heels particularly are high & a bit forward. Generally the distal(ground) surface of P3 should be within only about 5 degrees of ground parallel. The line I've drawn at the heel is a rough guesstimate of that angle & is far greater than 5 degrees. Of course, perhaps due to injury, conformation, etc, she may necessarily have clubby backs too.

The phalangeal alignment appears 'broken backed' if going off the dorsal(toe) hoof wall, which means that IF the wall was tightly attached, the alignment is out, but considering the heel height, hairline angle, etc, etc, I'm thinking the dorsal aspect of P3 is likely to align reasonably with P1, but not with the hoof wall. The depth of the collateral grooves in back of the foot compared with the depth(or almost complete lack of) at the front of the frog(s) are another indication of 'rotation' of the hoof capsule away from the bone. *Of course, pics on a slight angle can make things apear more skewed too.

After considering conformation, as it appears the sinking has left nothing affordable to come off the ground surface without invading live sole material, I'd probably bevel the backs, as per the line on the pic, so the angles can improve without aggressive lowering. Over time then, the bulging frogs(trying to reach the ground) will flatten and the internal structures will be higher, allowing the heels to be lowered more.

Assuming confo/injury dictates the angles need to stay as they are, as with the front left, I would be still keeping the toe breakover back where it should be, to avoid stress & separation at the toe - in line with pastern angle - and using pads to protect thin soles at the toe(certainly not thinning the already ultra thin soles as has been done:-() and probably also using frog support pads, to allow the frogs/heels to be of use in supporting the horse despite the height.

The hind foot pic I've drawn on shows the guesstimate of distal surface P3 angle & the bevel I'd trim the heels if needing to lower them, the pastern angle as relates to the dorsal wall and the hairline, marked because the angle near the front - horizontal or perhaps even dipping forward - is one indication of P3 position/angle and the quite strongly curved region(jammed up) at the heel quarters indicates excess stress there.

The front left pic shows the(conservatively, I reckon) angle that the distal surface of P3 is on, and the angle the toe wall should be, if not flared. Rather than addressing it as has been done, by reducing thickness from the top and leaving it substantially flared still, I'd address it by bevelling/rolling the toe from the ground, back where breakover should be. The blue line is about as far forward as I'd want a shoe, if the horse was to be shod, and as with the backs, I'd definitely be padding the ultra thin sole at the toe and probably using a frog wedge for further heel support.

Oh & pic 153 is included to show that the farrier has shod to the quarter flare, rather than shoeing where the foot should be, which means the constant pressure on this area will perpetuate & possibly worsen the flare. Not going to comment on m/l balance apart from that, as it may be just the angle of the pics.


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