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My Horse Kicks...What do I do?

4K views 16 replies 15 participants last post by  Centaurheart 
#1 ·
My horse has always had some respect issues, mostly on the ground. I'm pretty sure he knows how he is supposed to act, because when I looked at him he was very quiet and obedient. My issue is just how I'm supposed to enforce the rules.

His lastest prank, kicking, has made me decide it is time to work on groundwork and respect. I was fingerpainting him with horse paint for a parade, and he did not want to stand still...I don't think he liked the paint, but he could've been plain antsy too. Anyway, he was scooting around while tied, and he was getting in my space, so I smacked him and made him back away. Then, within a second, he turned his hindquarters to me and kicked me to the ground. I'm not sure if his hoof even got me, as nothing hurts except my tailbone, which I landed on. It really freaked out my mom and me too. He has threatened to kick before and tried to, usually when I try to shoo him away or when I'm trying to get him to speed up on the lunge line. He kicked my dad once too, a year or so back. I thought he had grown out of this, but it's coming back again.

He also trys to rush ahead when I'm leading him and does not care where he puts his feet. I have been knocked over twice because he's been startled and jumps into me. I can't get him to slow down when I lead him, even when I bump him with my elbow or try to stop him and back him. He won't stop with me. He also has problems loading in the trailer - he balks until we get the lunge whip out. He respects that more than me unfortunately.

My riding is fair, but Rusty is my first horse and isn't the most obedient. What are some exercises I can do with him and how can I break this kicking habit before I or someone else gets seriously hurt?

Thanks.
 
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#2 ·
This is an easy fix but extremely hard for me to explain to you in writing. You need the help of someone right there with you to show you the needed corrections, find someone. Quickly too, this is dangerous & could get worse.
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#3 ·
Simple. If your working with him carry a dressage (long) whip in your pocket. If he so much as crinkles his nose he gets a hard whack and yell "hey!". It has to be hard enough to mean something so the memory sticks. If you tap him with it your probably just going to tick him off more. One swift whack, then go back to what your doing.

If he threatens to kick you, ie moving his butt toward you, lifting a legs, kicking the air, tail swishing, etc make him think that he is about to DIE. Use your whip, a bucket, your shoe, back him, let him bump his butt into things (safe things, stall door, split rail fence), shake the lead. If you do it right he is going to say "whoa, better NEVER do that again". Then just go right back to what your doing with him.

Make sure when your around him he is ALWAYS on his best behavior. Little habits can snowball into big ones. Mouthiness to biting. Kicking out at the air turns to kicking a human. Expect nothing but good behavior from him. Don't let him get away with rubbing his head on you and biting then discipline him for kicking. Keep everything the same across the board.

Practice moving him out of your space. Make use you can easily move his hindend, shoulders, back and forward out of your space. All I have to do is say "move over" or "over" and sometimes touch her with my finger and she scoots over. If she doesn't listen I grab a cotton lead and lightly reinforce what she knows.

Make sure what your doing isn't causing your horse pain. Check to see if his back is sore by running your fingers on either side about two inches away from his spine. Run them over his hips and all the way to the base of his tail. I don't think its an acceptable thing for a horse to kick out when they.are in pain, but its worth a check.
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#4 ·
I wholeheartedly agree with Slidestop. I'm not going to add anything to that because that is EXACTLY what I would do in this situation. There's some pretty dang good advice there. If my horse ever threatens me in any way, I make him think he's going to die. They certainly remember it and don't usually try again.

Definitely work some ground work/respecting your space. I'd do it in the arena and carry a dressage whip. I find ground work sessions to be a huge help for many things.
 
#5 ·
Agreed. You need to turn from a push-over to a drill sergeant, at least for a while. Once he knows and is respecting the rules, you can be 'friends' again, but his behavior may get you or someone else seriously injured or killed.

DEMAND PERFECT behavior. If he so much as lifts a foot in irritation, gives you a dirty look, or fails to get out of your way, you need to react and correct him immediately- make him believe that you really will kick his hiney from on fencerow to the next like a good lead mare would. Once he KNOWS, deep down that you will not tolerate that kind of nonsense, he will stop trying it. It sounds like he's been getting away with pushing you around for a while, so you're going to have to get tough with him for just as long to overcome the bad habits you both have gotten into (you tolerating that sort of disrespect, and him dishing it out). I always recommend getting a trainer involved too- there is nothing like a extra pair of eyes to see warning signs and habits that you don't even notice any more and give you on-the-spot advice.
 
#6 ·
Slidestop is wise. :) Back the heck out of him immediately. And not a nice showmanship back but a crazy quick your face is on fire back. Your horse definitely has no respect for you and you are the low man on the totem pole here. And always keep his head tipped towards you. I like how Clinton Anderson explains it..."Two eyes are always better then two heels."
 
#7 · (Edited)
I'd pop him in the butt with the end of the lead rope (Hard enough to get his attention.) and make him turn to face you (when he kicks at you or even acts like he's going to). Practice making him yield his hindquarters away from you. Back him up a lot, too. He sounds like he doesn't respect your space at all. Maybe do some lunging. I agree that the little things can (and WILL!!) snowball into bigger things. Fix them NOW while they are still little. I'll see if I can find a video of someone yielding their horse's hindquarters...

Found one! It's not the best, but it gives you the general idea. I was sad that I couldn't find any of Clinton Anderson doing it... this lady (right?) isn't as demanding as he is...

 
#8 ·
If you are concerned about hitting him, and don't want to be mean to your boy, think in horse terms. He never for a second considered you when he kicked you. He told you to stop multiple times with his fidgeting and you didn't listen. He was telling you "hey, I don't like that. I don't like that. Stop." and you did not correct him. He got fed up with you ignoring his warnings and blasted you. Which should have sent you into a Taz-like tornadic rage beating him into the next county. That is considered dangerous behavior and a "killing offense". He doesn't care a lick about you so don't feel bad about retaliating. He could KILL you with this behavior.

The very first "No." he gives you needs to be corrected. Figure out what works best for you in gaining his respect. Backing him up furiously is often recommended. And then figure out what he is telling you. Watch his body, his feet, his eyes, his ears, his mouth. He will tell you when he is getting irritated. It is your job to listen and adjust his attitude.
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#9 ·
I have a pushy young horse. I had an issue with leading, he was pushing my buttons slow to stop on the lead, nudging me and being a pest. I put a stud chain on him over his nose. I stopped he did not and I popped the lead and the chain. He backed up and we did that for about twenty minutes. I transitioned him down to a normal lead. I find a lead with a chain can help. If nothing else it might give him something to think about. In my book, if he threatens to kick you again, you tear him a new one or make him think you will. Make it the most negative experience in his entire life, for a few seconds. Then go back to doing what you were doing before.
 
#10 ·
I'm against all training advice that has been given so far. Not because I disagree with most of it, but because I don't think you or your family is capable of carrying it out.

That he has kicked at your dad, and continually has threatened you tells me your family is not horsey enough to deal with this. I imagine what will happen is that you all will try to fix this, and not be tough enough to back it up and will instead make this worse.

Get a trainer involved. And not just a guy down the street that rides horses that buck, but someone who really is a horseman/woman. If you don't, the next kick could be the one you wake up dead from.

The lead rope thing as a correction for kicking is a major no no as it does not give you something firm enough, as a lash whip would do, to get horse off of you, plus you have to regather it, something that people that aren't good with handling horses will not be able to do in time to stave off any other behaviors.

A lash whip or even a branch gives you a diameter of protection.

But I really don't think you or your family will be successful without someone helping you.
 
#11 ·
My tendency is to say "Kick back", but I think Palomine is correct. You need to learn how to deal with him while he is fidgeting, well before the kick. Also, if my horses THINK about turning their hindquarters to me - at least while they are unhappy - I cut inside to their ribs, and unload holy hell.

But that is me. That matches my personality. From the sounds of it, you need someone who really knows their stuff to help out. A horse that feels free to kick you is a horse that can literally kill you. Learn to deal with it ASAP, or get rid of the horse.
 
#12 ·
Just putting this out there, no one in my family has a lick of horse knowledge except me. And, as you have read above, my horse knowledge is a little low in the groundwork department.

Today is the first day Rusty has ever kicked out at me while he's been tied - the kicking/lunging incidents have not happened for a very long time. It's mostly in the pasture where he displays this behavior, where I cannot back him up with a lead rope and halter because I don't have one on him. I have a horse that is on the bottom of the totem pole that gets grain too, and sometimes Rusty comes over to steal, and I have no way to separate them and tie them up. If I go and act "alpha-y" with Rusty then, ie waving my arms or shooing him with them, he will turn his butt to me and try to kick. And of course, I have no whip or anything to beat him with (not abuse beat, lol, you know what I mean).

I have to admit, I'm really slow on the warning signs leading up to the really bad behavior, but I'm starting to learn - really fast. I get that with anything that I consider a threat, I have to make him think I'm going to kill him. But what about when he's just fidgety? How do I get him to stand still? Because I'm sure he knows how to.

I will talk to my instructor at my next lesson. I just wanted some HF people's advice too. I must be a much better rider than handler, because he's pretty behaved under saddle.
 
#13 ·
Yep, get an experienced horseperson in. In the meantime carry a good long whip (I used a driving whip with Brock, provides a greater perimeter than a dressage whip and is less unwieldy than a lunge whip) with you whenever you go to see him. But I'd try to avoid a confrontation if possible, unless you can send him off it could get very dangerous if he decides to fight back. Don't let other family members handle him for the moment, they may get hurt irritatingly make matters worse.

Best nip this disrespectful behaviour in the bud, or it'll soon spill over into other aspects of handling and riding. Good luck, stay safe and keep us updated as to progress!
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#14 ·
You can work on fidgiting with approach and retreat. Get him on a lead in a round pen and "sack him out". Using a stick about the length of a yardstick, stand at a 45degree angle at his shoulder, touch him all over. If he moves, move with him and keep touching him the same way until he stops and stands still. He may move a lot, but stay with it Then stop! Your stopping is his reward! Do it all again. You want to keep doing this as much as you can with objects that will bother him and work until he stands calmly. Only stop whe he stops moving and is showing signs of relaxation like licking, chewing, cocking a hind leg, head down.

If he is like my gelding, who was acting very similarly to yours, you will have to work hard to find something that bugs him. He was well trained and unflappable, but disrespectful. I think sacking out will help, but his fidgiting and kicking is not where this started. It started when he gives you guff in the pasture and walks over you on the ground. You need to address those too.

In the pasture, never go without a stick and string. In fact, Never work with him without a stick in your hand and/or a crop in your pocket from now on. He is a dangerous but thread right now. He is moving on you to become the alpha and he is looking for opportunities (like when you say he does it in the pasture when he knows you can't get him). If he does anything that is disrespectful, you must correct him. My gelding kicked out after i released him, both feet, not long ago. I yelled"NO!" and threw my only weapon at the moment, a bucket, grabbed my stick (always nearby!) and chased him down. I haltered him again and worked him hard on the ground for another 15 minutes, then released him again and he was much better. I dont hit him unless it is immediately after his dangerous behavior and I make him work extra hard moving his feet after I yell and spank. I have found you have to be careful to only hit this way or he can feel "challenged" and become more dangerous.

When leading or around the barn, be totaling unforgiving if he bumps you or pushes or rubs. Yell no, hit once or twice with stick and make him back up. If its when you are leading, make him back up until he is quick and light on his feet, or lunge him for 5 minutes at a brisk trot and change directions often, or make him yield front and hind, again till he is quick and responsive.

You can see there is a lot to it so a trainer could really help you, especially if you are unfamiliar with approach/retreat and groundwork.

I get the feeling he knows what to do, but thinks he has a shot at the bosses job. If you can be firm and fair, and make sure that every move he makes around you is respectful and what you tell him to do, then you will be fine. If that sounds too hard or you don't want to be a hard *** with him all the time, you may need a different horse, IMHO.
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#15 ·
It sounds like you've got an instructor you trust, which is fantastic. Any chance you could take some 'groundwork' lessons from them, so they can teach you the early/small signs and challenges so you can get better at recognizing them? I like a lunge whip- and if you have a horse that will kick you when at liberty, I would not go into a field with that horse without one for your own safety.

Challenges can be simple things that you might not even notice if you're not looking for them. For example- my horse normally stands back while I pour grain in his bucket and then eats once I turn away. One day he tried to stick his nose in the bucket while I was still dumping his feed in. My horse got bopped over the head with the tupperware his feed came out of until he backed off out of my space. Then I stood there for a couple extra moments, just to be sure he wasn't going to try to get pushy again... then I walked off and he ate.
 
#16 ·
This is something I've told both of my kids and was drilled into me from the time I could understand it.

ALWAYS HAVE A WAY TO ESCAPE! ALWAYS!

This means never let yourself be stuck in the corner of the stall behind him, always have quick access to the door or up on a tail board to go over the top of the stall. Never get between him and a wall. He's liable to take that advantage and kick the daylights out of you.

Palomine is right, you need help on this one, it's a battle you must win at all costs the first time. If he wins round one, you've lost the war.

Put a chain over his nose to lead him. He will respect it. If that doesn't work, have your trainer show you how to use a lip chain. What someone said earlier, kicking like that is a killing offense. I worked in the same barn with a man that was kicked in the chest and had a bone puncture his heart.
 
#17 ·
I'm with Sharpie on this one. You've been given a lot of great advice, but have your 'instructor' stop everything, put the breaks on, and go back to the ground manners with you. You cannot be safe around horses unless you can do the following things...

A. Control the Horse's Feet At All Times
B. Control the Horse's Attitude.

That means, in essence, your horse puts his feet where you want him too when you want him too and you have always have, if not a happy, at least a cooperative horse. Cause lets face it, there's certain things we do to them they don't like - shots for one, etc.

Possum is right. Always have a way out. And you can carry a lunge whip into the pasture to give yourself some space and reach to separate horses if you need too.

I also noticed you said your horse walks in front of you etc.

One thing I have shown other people, which might be crude but works really well to keep a horse from walking either on top of you or ahead of you is to hold your horse safely with the lead (get your instructor to show you how if you don't know already) and then take the free end thats long and loose and supposed to be gathered up in the hand that's not holding the horse and swing it in an arc like your lassoing something in front of you so it makes a solid swinging rope wall in front of you and your horse. Its hard to explain, but swing it like a jump rope so that if your horse walks nicely beside you he's not smacked but if he tries to walk in front of you, rush you, etc you end up smacking him upside the head with the lead. It works wonders to get them to back off and walk nicely beside and slightly behind you.

I wish I could explain it better because a demo is worth a thousand words, but your lead rope sheild will definitely get him backing off and not walking on top of you.

And again.. make sure he can't kick you. It sounds like he has a temper and is just acting out trying to get higher on the pecking order by putting himself first and you lower on the list. You need to get that corrected immediately and his attitude adjusted before he gets out of hand and dangerous.
 
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