My horse won't be tied up
Ok so at my barn we have a concrete patch (outside) where we have a steel/metal bar held by two wooden posts which have cross ties attached. My horse who is fine with being cross tied insde will not take being tied outside to the bar or the cross ties no matter what I do he will just throw his head up and back up. With this issue it's hard to bathe him because that's where we wash him and I have to hold him and I can't wash his tail.
Also he mostly won't let anyone hold him while I wash his tail.
Have you ever tried tying him up and walking away for about 20 minutes? Assuming it's strong enough to handle a horse that pulls back, I would leave his butt there. i would bet that's how he got ok with the other cross ties in the first place.
I'm wondering if the real issue is with bathing. You said that he won't allow someone to hold him either.
I promise you it's not the bathing part because I've bathed him other places different and similar to the actual bathing block thing. The thing is, it's not just the bathing place it's anywhere that he won't be tied up.
To Army wife thanks for the advice and i might try it.
Have you taught him to confidently be tied? I think the VAST majority of problems horses have with being tied is because their prey/flight animal brains aren't good at handling being trapped. Think about it from his point of view & work out how you can prove to him it's OK to be tied.
First & foremost, I'd suggest not putting him into a 'sink or swim' confrontation, but don't tie him up until he's comfortable with it, especially in x-ties. The way I do this is with a long rope(at least 12', pref more) & either a 'tie ring' or if there's a set up like you describe, just a couple of wraps around the rail. You hold the loose end of the rope. That way, he can learn the feel of being restricted, but if he feels he needs to move his feet, he can without coming up against an unyielding restraint & panicking. You can just reel him in again & start over with whatever you're doing. When he is confident with this, you can take another wrap or 2 around the rail to make it more firm pressure.
Loosie has a good idea. I did this with my filly when I first taught her to tie. Just a couple loops, enough to feel like she's tied, but if she pulled back, she could get a few steps back without panicking. I was thinking this was just a attitude/behavioral problem since you said he will tie inside your barn. If that's the case, I've heard a good strong tire tube tied to a tree works great. Similar concept, if they pull back, the rubber has plenty of give, but won't break. One personal rule of thumb, I always tie my horses higher then their withers. That way they can't get their head stuck under the rope. And if they do pull back, the risk of pulling a muscle is a lot less. Let us know what you try and what your outcome is :)
Well, your horse has issues. Your problem isn't just that he won't tie, it's also that he has behavior problems you ought to be fixing too.
You should teach your horse to ground tie.
And after you teach him to ground tie, put him in those crossties. And then sit there. What's he going to do? Rip the concrete out of the ground and tear the chains to shreds? Yeah, right.
Ok, a horse that pulls back does so because it fears being confined.. guess what, all horses fear being confined.. we can take the above mentioned approach and tie them to something they cannot break (Btw I watched a 2 year old run headlong through a field dragging a broken railroad tie, and a 3 year old that broke a 5/8" cotton rope, 4 times) or we can train them to stand tied by giving them something that restrains but doesn't immobilize.
A horse will learn to give to pressure, given the right situation and equipment, the Blocker is a good example and one I highly recommend. It will allow a horse to pull line through it but releases pressure as soon as the horse gives. a couple days working with the horse and a blocker ring and you'll be able to loop a rope around a dead sagebrush and be confident that your horse will still be there when you get you gear out of the truck.
Most horses that pull back do so because they have gotten by with breaking everything they have been tied with. They have won and are bound and determined to be in charge and NOT be tied.
Everything you have said about this horse screams "spoiled". The tail is wagging the dog here. He has trained you as to what he will do and what he will not do. He has you far better trained than you have him trained.
While I will agree that being tied is NOT NATURAL for any horse, it is necessary. It does go against their natural fears of not being able to flee. But then, riding them and 'using' them is not natural either. Standing around free in a herd with their buddies is all they go out and volunteer for. Everything else we do is not natural. [So much for 'natural horsemanship'.
That all being said, a horse that does not allow itself to be tied is pretty useless. I know of no other cure than to train them to yield to that pressure, stand quietly and allow you to do whatever you want (obviously within reason and not abusive).
I want you to think about this:
Every time you make a statement like "My horse does not allow me to do this or that!" or "My horse will not tolerate this or that!" it really means your horse has done a better job of training you than you have done of training him and that basic problem in your relationship needs to be fixed.
^^Agreed. Except for the first statement - breaking everything is a product of pulling back, not the original reason for fighting it in the first place. I think fear of feeling trapped is the major reason, but of course they do quickly learn otherwise. That's why I feel teaching them to *confidentally* yield to pressure & be tied is an important step, rather than just tying them to something unbreakable & let them fight until they give up - not to mention this can be dangerous - on necks & spines as well as when 'unbreakable' things break, such as longshot's eg.
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