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HorseExpert 07-25-2012 02:50 PM

What do I do now?
 
Okay so, I just recently started riding horses again. I started riding lessons when I was 6, and I took lessons for 5 years riding western. I stopped taking lessons when I got my third horse, and that's when all the problems began.
Originally, we were going to look at a horse for my cousin, but when we got to the seller's house, he had another horse tied up and I absolutely fell in love with him. Looking back, I realize that neither me or my cousin should have gotten those horses. I was 11 at the time, and I just recently realized that my horse, Tiger, was probably drugged when we went over to look at him. The reason why I think so is that he's a pretty alert horse, and if you walk up to him he'll interact with you, he's not a dead head or anything like that. But I remember that he was pretty much sleeping when I went up to him, he didn't really sniff me or act curious or anything. My family doesn't know anything about horses, and I should've had someone with me that knew what they were doing, but I wasn't the one that was supposed to get a horse that day so I guess that's why. The seller told us that he would make a great kid's horse, and that he was used as a roping horse at a ranch in Oklahoma and that he had no quirks or vices except that he would get nervous if someone approached him wearing a black cowboy hat. Anyways, we went back a couple days later so I could ride Tiger and decide if I wanted him for sure. What I remember about that was that again, he was very calm, almost sleepy. So of course, we bought him.
I don't remember why, but I remember that right off the bat I didn't want to lope him when we got him home, we don't have an arena, just a pasture. I can't remember any big problems I had with him until I decided I wanted to barrel race with him. So we took him to the "trainer" that was training my cousin's horse. The first day we took Tiger she told us that she didn't like him, that she could see the whites of his eyes and that meant he was crazy. Well, I didn't really take that to heart because honestly, I was kind of offended. The trainer's husband hated my cousin's horse because he was a paint, which should've been enough of a reason to find a different trainer, but we were all naive, and kept them there. I don't remember how long Tiger was at the trainer's but when we got him back, he had become very spooky and nervous. That was when he started giving me problems when I would try to bridle him. Tiger is 15.2 hands, and i'm 5'1, and I was probably under 5 foot at the time, so he didn't have to raise his head very high in order for me to not be able to reach him. Every single time I would go to bridle him it was a battle, I would eventually get him bridled, but I would have to work at it. He was really bad about balking and pulling back while I was trying to get his bridle on, and he dented our fence, broke a halter and a bridle in the 5 years that I was riding him.
Anyways, after we got him back from the first trainer, i'd had him for 2 years, and I was 13. That was when my old riding instructor introduced us to Lucy, who was her farrier and also a trainer. All I can say is, if it hadn't been for her, I probably would've quit riding long before I did. She helped me get Tiger back to where he was before, and she started teaching me how to barrel race. (At this point, we were boarding him at a barn with an arena, so I wasn't riding him in our pasture at this point.) When we had been practicing for a while, she invited me to the play days that she and her daughter went to, because her daughter had just started barrel racing too. At the first play day, I only signed up for the barrel racing event, because I wanted Tiger to get used to every thing. He acted perfect up until we got into the arena, the minute I went for the first barrel(the right one) he turned left and tried to run of a gate that was open on the left side of the arena, but I managed to get him to go towards that first barrel, and we finished the event. (Tiger isn't a barrel racer, I just wanted to do it for fun, I wasn't trying to compete or anything, so we weren't going very fast) After the event, Tiger was a whole different horse. The sun had gone down, and he became really antsy, and spooky. I couldn't get him to stand still. Lucy didn't really know what was going on, and I guess she thought that maybe if we brought him back a couple more times that he would calm down. Well, the second time I brought him I didn't enter him in anything, but after the sun went down he started acting silly again. After that, I took him one more time. I remember, the sun hadn't gone down yet, and I was walking him in a circle when he started putting his head down, and all of a sudden, I was on the ground and he was trotting away from me! He had laid down with me, and it was a miracle my leg didn't get caught under him, Lucy said one minute she saw me walking him, and the next time she looked I was on the ground and Tiger was running away. So, needless to say, I quit taking him to play days after that. For the next year I rode him in the arena, with Lucy and her daughter, and just worked on getting him ready to take back home.
When I got him home, he immediately started acting different, he went back to the way he was before, giving me problems bridling him, trying to buck me off, etc. So, I rode on and off for the next 2 years, and it seemed like even when I did ride him a lot, it didn't get any easier. It was always a battle and it wasn't fun for me anymore, and I have loved horses my whole life, and i've never had trouble with horses until I got Tiger. It just became really hard, and I've always felt ashamed of the fact that I quit riding. I felt like I couldn't go talk to Lucy about it, and I've never had very many friends who actually ride horses, so I just kind of tried to forget. Two years ago, when I was 16, I had a random spurt of inspiration, I thought to myself, "this time it'll be different, I'm older and more patient and mature." (i've had a couple of these incidents) He probably hadn't been ridden in a year, but I still went out and fed him and interacted with him, so I figured he wouldn't be too spooky. Up to this point, I had tried and tried and tried to "fix" him. I don't know how to explain it, I'm not good with words really, but I just wanted him to be my perfect horse, one that I could do anything with and one I wasn't scared of. Because even though I was scared of him, I loved him to death, and I still do. Anyways, I started getting ready to go, and I was trying to calm myself down. Because by then, I was scared of him, and bridling him had always been difficult. In all of my years with horses, I had never gotten nervous around them or been scared of them, but all of my years with Tiger has made me that way. But i'm getting off track, I went out to saddle and bridle him, I always saddled him first. So, after I got him saddled, I went for the bridle. It was a miracle, he kept his head reasonably close to me, and he let me put it on him. I was shocked, I had a hold of the throat latch and was going to buckle it when he spooked, he balked, and when he did I still had the throat latch in my hand (not buckled yet) and it snapped off. That bridle was old, it was my first bridle, and I was a little upset about the fact that it broke. So, I calmed him down, or tried to. Because at this point, I'm nervous, and he's nervous. But I was determined to work with him. I had decided not to ride him that day, I just wanted to take it slow, so I pulled the rest of the broken throat latch out of the bridle, made sure his tack was all correct, and began walking him out to one of the smaller sections of our pasture. Once I got him out there, we were both relatively calm, and I began doing some ground work with him that Lucy had taught me, like disengaging the hindquarters. So, while I was doing this, he spooked, and bolted towards me and stepped on one of my feet, which didn't hurt, but it scared me. These kind of events were pretty normal, Tiger would do something like try to buck me off, or bolt, or run me under trees to try to get to his barn, and I would get upset and want to get off. But I knew that quitting now would just show him that acting like that would get him nowhere. So, I kept trying to disengage his hindquarters, and he did it again, except this time he clipped my shoulder with his shoulder and almost knocked me down. Which was pretty scary because I was afraid that he was going to run over me. That was the last straw, I've never been the emotional type, but Tiger is fantastic at getting me upset because I feel like i've been betrayed by my best friend. I told myself that was it, I was done trying to "fix" him. That was the last time I tried to ride him, I sold my saddle, and focused on my last two years of high school.
Now, i'm 18, just graduated, and I have a job with a lady who shows cutting horses! She has two geldings that she doesn't have a lot of time for, but she wants to keep because they're her pleasure horses, so I ride them for her. I never thought that I would get an opportunity like this, but a friend of mine introduced me to Maggie, and I started riding her horses for her. I was really nervous my first day, I hadn't ridden in two years, and I made sure that she knew that, but honestly, my friend had told Maggie about me as a person, and not as a rider, and I guess she just liked my character, and the ability part wasn't a huge deal. Although, she did watch me my first day and watched how I handled her two horses. I have to admit, I had forgotten a lot of stuff, and I took it pretty slow for the first couple of days. But, what I do with them isn't very strenuous, I just ride them for probably around thirty minutes each, mostly trotting and then some loping, but it's a pretty good workout for them since they're out of shape. Anyways, that's were I am now. Honestly, every time I put a bridle on one of those horses, it shocks me that they put their heads down and let me. They're completely different from Tiger, I'm not scared of them and I'm actually having fun with them. I've been doing this for about a month now and I love it, more than I thought I would. I keep expecting to feel that resistance, that feeling that I don't want to ride anymore, but it hasn't come. I mean, even though I just ride two or three times a week, I find myself looking forward to the next time I get to ride. I know that's how it should be, but I still have a problem: Tiger. He's 18, like me, and I want to sell him, but I don't feel like I can. He's older, and he's not really a kid's horse. He would need an experienced rider, and also, we paid too much for him, so I would have to probably cut the price we bought him for in half. But money isn't the issue, I don't care about that part. My problem is is that, I don't want to let him go. Even though i don't ride him, I feel like no one would want to buy him. I've tried to sell him three times, and a couple people have come to look at him, and some have ridden him and liked him, but it never worked out. I just feel like I need to let him go, but I don't want to. I'm not looking for another horse or anything, because I don't think my grandparents would let me get another horse until I have my own place to keep one, but Tiger is just sitting in our pasture, and when I do go out and see him, he is the sweetest thing in the world. It's frustrating, because I wish he acted like that when I ride him.
I don't really know what the point of this post was, I guess to just get out all of the hurt i've felt for the past 7 years. It sounds kind of ridiculous, feeling this way over a horse, but I feel like we kind of broke each other. I wish I hadn't gone with my cousin that day to look at her horse, because I would've never seen Tiger and I would probably have found a better horse, and I would've never stopped riding. But then, maybe I would have stopped anyways. But now that i've started again, I don't want to ever stop riding again. I'm just so afraid that I will. I guess I just don't know where to go from here. Here I am with a job riding horses that I love, and I don't even ride my own horse or own my own saddle. I just feel a little lost right now. I do want to say, that I'm aware that all the problems I had with Tiger were not his fault, it was the result of the way I tried to handle it, and the way other people treated him, and I believe that the first trainer we took him to hit him, because I never mistreated him or hit him except the occasional pop on the nose for trying to bite me or rub his head on me. Also, i've always been a pretty logical thinker, and I don't usually get upset over things, but Tiger always seems to do the trick. Sorry about the long story, if you've made it this far thank you for reading about my problem! :) I guess I just want opinions about the whole thing, but please try to keep it positive. :) Thank you!

Copperhead 07-25-2012 03:16 PM

I bought a young horse when I was young, and we battled for years. Because young horses need old trainers, not young riders.

Shame on the seller for selling a young girl a horse that wasn't for her.

You are lucky that you weren't seriously hurt. Tiger really might not be a bad horse. It sounds like his rider was just young and inexperienced, and he needed an experienced rider to get his head on straight and, more importantly, keep it that way.

Most competitive horses have some kind of "flash" to them. I don't want to call them spooky, or dangerous, or insane. They just think on a different level than other "normal" horses, persay.

I'm probably using all the wrong words and I am probably insulting a lot of people right now. But I'm not trying to insult, just trying to explain.

Horses like Tiger need someone who is up on his level of the game. He sounds a lot like my mare, who was dubbed "dangerous" by the trail riding facility she was born into and literally thrown at me last year, free of charge. I had worked with her before and found that all the "dangerous" behavior disappears when someone puts her into serious, consistant work. Not the general walk/trot/canter around the arena, but the actual kind of work that keeps her skitso mind constantly thinking about what she's doing.

She will never be a calm, student ready horse that the facility wanted. She's a competitor and if she isn't advancing in some area or being challenged, she gets flaky. It sounds like Tiger might be that sort of horse.

It also sounds like Tiger might have had a rough start with his original owner with being afraid of black cowboy hats, and his experience with the trainer you took him to was no better because they were automatically prejudice against him.

And to add to that, he's not the kind of horse that can be under work great, then tossed out into the pasture for a couple weeks and then start back at the exact same place he left off. Horses like Tiger need conistancy. A consistant, experienced handler and rider. A consistant work schedule. A consistant challenge. He is consinstantly needing to be worked, or his mind melts.

I just think its a case that you ended up buying a horse that wasn't suited for you. You didn't ride him for your safety which was the better choice. You either need to be the rider he needs and advance yourself through lessons for him, or you have to try an sell him...which could be a bit hard at this point.

If you were to sell him, I'd sell him to a trainer who was capable of handling him and then matching him with a rider of his preference. Horses like Tiger are very driven. Its hard to ride a driven horse when all you want to do is a liesurely walk/trot/canter everytime you get on.

If you keep him, just be careful. Sending him to a trainer will help in the short term, but long term, he will resort back to who he is now because nothing is consistant.

If he's healthy and fat and happy in a pasture and you're ok with him being there while you ride other horses, you can certainly do that too.

HorseExpert 07-25-2012 03:29 PM

I totally agree with you Copperhead, I think he's been treated badly and just has issues that I can't help him with. I'm okay with him being in the pasture, but my grandparents would probably like it if I sold him, which like you said, would be difficult to do at this point.

DancingArabian 07-25-2012 03:42 PM

If you can afford the cost of keeping him then keep him.

Let go of the fantasy of Tiger being your perfect horse. He isn't. He is Tiger and you can't change that anymore than you can stop being you. Accept him for what he is - a horse that isn't safe to ride and is questionable to try to work with. I would suggest groundwork but you do sound scared of him so you may just end up getting hurt.
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HorseExpert 07-25-2012 04:37 PM

I've definitely given up on that, I think it was just my stubbornness and determination that made me want to fix him. I finally reached my breaking point with it and now I just need to decide if I just want to keep him or if I should try to sell him.

kait18 07-25-2012 05:40 PM

This is my 2cents and not sure you will like it…but tough love it always better in my book :/
Personally from your post I think you are a quitter(sp). Once something got to hard you always gave up. That being said, I do think this horse could still be your horse but it is going to take a lot of work!!!
Also just to point out I do not think the horse was drugged at the sellers nor do I think he was beat or mistreated at the trainers. I think all the issues that you had were directly related to your inexperience. Which is not only your fault , the seller should have realized while you were trying him that you two would not be a good match..but sadly some (not all) horse people don’t care L
also from assumption tiger is pastured alone? is that true?? If so to some ppl that is considered neglect as well since horses are herd animals and are very social. So you might find just spending time down by his field will help you guys.
Also just because he is 18 doesn’t mean he can’t do something enless he has physical or health problems. Next being I would find a trainer that will work with him and you. You want someone who will tell you the truth and not sugar coat anything and realize what your weaknesses are and what his weaknesses are. and you have to be honest about your abilities.
Work him on the ground with the trainer while you get riding lessons and continue to work with the other 2 horses.
With the right trainer and your complete dedication to working with him from the ground up, you might find that he is exactly the horse for you. You just didn’t try hard enough to get on the same page as him nor did you try to get him on the same page as you.
But if you think letting him sit in a pasture is fair because you are scared of him then I would sell him. It is not doing you, your grandparents, or tiger any good!!!
Oh that note whatever your choice, just make sure it’s the right one for the horse. Doesn’t mean it has to be right for you but for him, because he is the one who will suffer the consequences.
goodluck

HorseExpert 07-25-2012 06:03 PM

Kait, I appreciate the honesty and I agree tough love is best. But, I didn't give up every time, I was just pointing out the major problems I had with him, and I won't disagree with the fact that a lot of the problems I had were due to the fact that I'm inexperienced. His pasture borders my cousin's pasture who has two horses, and he goes over and hangs out with the other horses a couple times a day so he isn't alone. I also agree with the fact that whatever I do with him should be in his best interest, not mine.

Copperhead 07-25-2012 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kait18 (Post 1615051)
This is my 2cents and not sure you will like itÖbut tough love it always better in my book :/
Personally from your post I think you are a quitter(sp). Once something got to hard you always gave up. That being said, I do think this horse could still be your horse but it is going to take a lot of work!!!
Also just to point out I do not think the horse was drugged at the sellers nor do I think he was beat or mistreated at the trainers. I think all the issues that you had were directly related to your inexperience. Which is not only your fault , the seller should have realized while you were trying him that you two would not be a good match..but sadly some (not all) horse people donít care L
also from assumption tiger is pastured alone? is that true?? If so to some ppl that is considered neglect as well since horses are herd animals and are very social. So you might find just spending time down by his field will help you guys.
Also just because he is 18 doesnít mean he canít do something enless he has physical or health problems. Next being I would find a trainer that will work with him and you. You want someone who will tell you the truth and not sugar coat anything and realize what your weaknesses are and what his weaknesses are. and you have to be honest about your abilities.
Work him on the ground with the trainer while you get riding lessons and continue to work with the other 2 horses.
With the right trainer and your complete dedication to working with him from the ground up, you might find that he is exactly the horse for you. You just didnít try hard enough to get on the same page as him nor did you try to get him on the same page as you.
But if you think letting him sit in a pasture is fair because you are scared of him then I would sell him. It is not doing you, your grandparents, or tiger any good!!!
Oh that note whatever your choice, just make sure itís the right one for the horse. Doesnít mean it has to be right for you but for him, because he is the one who will suffer the consequences.
goodluck


I disagree. She has been over-horsed or years, and this horse knows how to scare her. In my opinion, he would be better off with a more experienced owner.

Pasturing a horse alone is not neglect.

She is not a trainer. She has not had proper instruction for years and in my opinion, stopped instruction at a very young age when she shouldn't have. She needs a steady eddie who is more forgiving than Tiger, and Tiger needs someone who is up on the same level, if not higher, than he is.

This pair, together, will not be successful.

Again, she is not at an experience level where this will resolve itself in the next couple weeks or months. She has had her confidence crushed, she has been scared, and she has been over-horsed for years. Getting him a new owner wuld be the responsible thing for her to do. That way he can go to a home where he can be worked and appreciated properly, and she can start from ground zero again.

kait18 07-25-2012 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HorseExpert (Post 1615106)
Kait, I appreciate the honesty and I agree tough love is best. But, I didn't give up every time, I was just pointing out the major problems I had with him, and I won't disagree with the fact that a lot of the problems I had were due to the fact that I'm inexperienced. His pasture borders my cousin's pasture who has two horses, and he goes over and hangs out with the other horses a couple times a day so he isn't alone. I also agree with the fact that whatever I do with him should be in his best interest, not mine.

the only reason i said quitter is because thats what my trainer told me when he saw what i let one of my horses get away with because i was scared. i had already been on the losing side and was content being there and not sticking it to him...
and now after a month and a half with a new trainer you would not believe the progress we have made. i am the leader and all his aggressiveness and naughtiness has pretty much gone away. we still have the small quirks but the majority of everything is gone because i was taught by someone experienced how to handle a horse in a different way to get the best out of that horse.

and knowing i could do it with the right help, i really think you could too with the right trainer!!

keep your head up and keep learning thats all any of us can do :P

kait18 07-25-2012 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copperhead (Post 1615120)
I disagree. She has been over-horsed or years, and this horse knows how to scare her. In my opinion, he would be better off with a more experienced owner.

Pasturing a horse alone is not neglect.

She is not a trainer. She has not had proper instruction for years and in my opinion, stopped instruction at a very young age when she shouldn't have. She needs a steady eddie who is more forgiving than Tiger, and Tiger needs someone who is up on the same level, if not higher, than he is.

This pair, together, will not be successful.

Again, she is not at an experience level where this will resolve itself in the next couple weeks or months. She has had her confidence crushed, she has been scared, and she has been over-horsed for years. Getting him a new owner wuld be the responsible thing for her to do. That way he can go to a home where he can be worked and appreciated properly, and she can start from ground zero again.

it all depends on the way you look at it :) and the individuals attitude to overcome and achieve. if she truly wants this horse to be that horse she will find a way. i did with mine even though he was alot worse then the OPs. she just needs the right guidence to show her what needs to be done.


and yes some people really do consider it neglect to leave a horse alone and not give them any interaction with other animals..not saying you cant but some people do consider it an issue. and as she pointed out to me for clarity the horse is around 2 others so it is not an issue here. i only asked because if he was completely alone that could cause afew issues from not being stimulated in the field by the herd if he is generally a more excitable horse.


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