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grayshell38 07-31-2012 10:40 AM

Appy color help!
 
4 Attachment(s)
So, this horse is my BO's, he is also the first appy that I have gotten to spend an extended time around. So far he is quite charming and a very cool guy.

I am having an issue with something very basic on him. Red or black base! Usually very simplistic, right? I am leaning toward black base, but as the photos will demonstrate, his color is a bit more complex than that.

There is black on his body as well as areas of super light red. I don't know that much about appy color, so maybe it is different, but you'd think red and black and he would be bay. However, there is black in his body and red on his legs. That seems to be opposite of bay...

Long story short, I need help! :lol: I know he is varnish and that is about it...

TexanFreedom 07-31-2012 12:40 PM

Appy loves to screw with the base color. Best idea is to test him. As far as the pattern, he looks fewspot- which is homozygous. I believe 'spotless' appys (fewspot, snowcap) are homozygous.

My guess on base color is brown.

texasgal 07-31-2012 12:42 PM

No way to know without testing ..

*sigh*

I love a varnish roan...

Drifting 07-31-2012 12:56 PM

I agree he looks fewspot, black base to me and the brown is just the brilliant sun-fade that ruins most black appy coats. It's hard to tell though without knowing what he looked like when he was born, if he was more solid then he just roaned/varnished out.

texasgal 07-31-2012 01:44 PM

He doesn't look fewspot to me. The varnish marks on his shoulders, hips, flanks, withers indicate that he was solid there at one time. He was most likely either solid or had a small snowcap blanket.

IMO

TexanFreedom 07-31-2012 02:56 PM

I have seen quite a few fewspots and snowcaps that show this 'roaning'.

So what exactly is varnish?
Blanket appaloosa is hetero PATN? and snowcap is homozygous for the same PATN gene?
And leopard appaloosa is Heterozygous for the other PATN gene, and fewspot is homozygous for the same gene... but what does that make 'varnish roan'?
Maybe someone can shed some light on this, I may have it all wrong.\

Could it be possible he has some sort of pinto gene that is causing the roaning?

texasgal 07-31-2012 03:03 PM

He is a VERY classic varnish roan.

The only place a true fewspot will have varnish is where there was solid color to begin with. The white on a fewspot is white .. there from birth .. with pink skin .. and does not change or varnish.

grayshell38 07-31-2012 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexanFreedom (Post 1624449)
I have seen quite a few fewspots and snowcaps that show this 'roaning'.

So what exactly is varnish?
Blanket appaloosa is hetero PATN? and snowcap is homozygous for the same PATN gene?
And leopard appaloosa is Heterozygous for the other PATN gene, and fewspot is homozygous for the same gene... but what does that make 'varnish roan'?
Maybe someone can shed some light on this, I may have it all wrong.\

Could it be possible he has some sort of pinto gene that is causing the roaning?


You mean like rabicano or sabino? He is a registered appy from (what I am told. Don't know much about appys) 'old' breeding, so not really a chance for a cross with a pinto in his lineage.

GhostwindAppaloosa 07-31-2012 03:16 PM

i would vote him as a snocap. No way to be 100% certain without knowing what his parents looked like and what color he was as a foal. does he have striped hooves? if he is a snocap or fewspot they will NOT be striped... thats a sign of a 100% color producer.

as far as color. I'd say he is a black base (bay or black) appys can come in tri colors.. meaning they show both black and brown coloration.. usually a sign they are black carrier Ee and not EE

TexanFreedom 07-31-2012 03:16 PM

Yes, but, even regestered appys can have sabino, without being crossed to a paint or other color-producing breed. Rabicano is not a pinto gene.
http://www.homozygous-horses.com/sabino/ptcruiser.jpg
This guy has some sort of pinto gene, but is only registered as an appaloosa.
From the site:
Heterozygous sabino. Here is a possible homozygous Lp gene (spotted) young ApHC stallion, however he is pictured here to display the typical sabino markings that are often present in other color breeds. Note the typical white lips & chin, and 4 (somewhat jagged) socks.
Johnson Show Horses, Appaloosa breeders in Staples MN. PT Cruiser received his ROM in halter with limited showing. He will stand to a limited number of mares; it will depend on his training schedule. Breeding Fee: Private Treaty. No shipped semen.


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