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-   -   Is Cinny starting to engage his hind? (http://www.horseforum.com/dressage/cinny-starting-engage-his-hind-133371/)

Cinnys Whinny 08-03-2012 05:15 PM

Is Cinny starting to engage his hind?
 
I took this video of Cinny on the Lunge today. To me he seems to be engaging his hind end more and going through his back, but I could be wrong. I would like some more experienced eyes to let me know what they think.

The video starts with his "bad side" and then reverses to the side he favors. I think he really is FINALLY starting to build some topline. Oh, and take a good listen.... I purposely didn't put fancy music on this one.... his teeth grinding has really really relaxed. He used to grind his teeth HORRIBLY non stop through his workouts.

All opinions are welcome and appreciated but remember, he is only about 2 years under saddle so he is still building correct muscling through his back.


oh vair oh 08-03-2012 05:31 PM

Just looks like dull torture to me.

Why not just ride him and help him engage his core by using your legs and teaching him lateral exercises? That would be more stimulating than promoting a false frame.

EDIT: He is so over-flexed at the poll he can't even move forward any more. He's lost all reach in his stride.

ChipsAhoy 08-03-2012 05:37 PM

I'll let the more experienced people help you with the engagement critique, but does he always go BTV? In the video he's avoiding the contact from the side reins rather than stretching into them. I'm all for lunging with side reins when the horse understands the concept, but he doesn't seem to so you might want to stick to riding.

SorrelHorse 08-03-2012 05:40 PM

Have to agree with oh vair oh.

I don't see a huge amount of engagement. A little bit, more towards the end, but I'd really like to see him powering up from behind instead of just putting his head down and stretching.

I think I would do a lot of under saddle work. With my mare, who dumped on her forehand when I got her, it was a lot of holding her with my hands while squeeezzzing with my legs and seat until she tucked her butt and worked off it. She will never be particularly good at it, but it gets the point across.

And your "teee-rot!" cracks me up by the way. :lol:

Cinnys Whinny 08-03-2012 05:40 PM

I do ride him and do laterals but we lunge too as prescribed by my trainer. He does have more stretch than he appears. With the side reins at that setting his can actually reach down beyond his knees and stretch forward quite a bit too, enough to almost straighten his neck.

My trainer says he's not over flexing, he's reaching for bit contact in the bridle and that his head dropping thus is normal for his stage of dressage training and it's okay. At a schumaker clinic I went to at the beginning of the year, he said it's normal for horses who are developing the want to reach for the bridle do this too and it's encouraged and the early stages.

So now I'm confused.

SorrelHorse 08-03-2012 05:42 PM

Well he is stretching and reaching, but it's not synonymous with hind end engagement....

Cinnys Whinny 08-03-2012 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SorrelHorse (Post 1629362)
Have to agree with oh vair oh.

I don't see a huge amount of engagement. A little bit, more towards the end, but I'd really like to see him powering up from behind instead of just putting his head down and stretching.

I think I would do a lot of under saddle work. With my mare, who dumped on her forehand when I got her, it was a lot of holding her with my hands while squeeezzzing with my legs and seat until she tucked her butt and worked off it. She will never be particularly good at it, but it gets the point across.

And your "teee-rot!" cracks me up by the way. :lol:

Around spring was when he finally started actually being accepting of the bit, we are still working on really bridling up under saddle though. When I first bought him he had the most horrible bit aversion, head tossing, teeth grinding and forget even putting a bridle on him as it was a battle. This all ended I'd say last April/May ish. He still gets a little tossy when I ride, but not like before and he actually reaches for the bridle when I go to put it on. It's definitely a work in progress.

and LOL, I started saying t-rot years ago with an old trainer when I was 16. She taught us all to do it that way because she says trot and walk sound too much alike to a horse and t-rot was a more clear and different communication. It just sort of stuck. People at my stable think I'm weird, but I don't care.

Nuala 08-03-2012 05:59 PM

I have to say that where you have his head set now he looks hollow which will do anything but help develop his top line. It sounds like it is making it hard for him to work and breath. Have you work him in a Surcingle at all? The way I train my horses, and they are almost always cross trained, is that you do half halts, halt and back then trot forward, and rollbacks.

I am not saying that you need to but it is sometimes good to question a trainer or ask another trainer near you. For some more ideas on what kind of trainers you can find and dressage issues look up Bad Eventer on Blogspot
Tales from a Bad Eventer: Why Dressage Sucks - A Rant
Tales from a Bad Eventer: Riding Instructors
Tales from a Bad Eventer: Riding Instructors (Part 2)

I personally did not see much in the way of engaging however I have never lunged to engage either.

Good luck

ChipsAhoy 08-03-2012 06:10 PM

Have you tried asking for more impulsion on the lunge? I know you've said he can be nervous and rushy, which obviously is not desirable, but if he wasn't just plodding along he'd most likely raise his back more along with the stretch.

I do the t-rot thing too...my trainer taught me when I was like 8 so i really have no hope of stopping now :lol:

Skyseternalangel 08-03-2012 06:24 PM

Actually I disagree with "he's not engaged"

Pausing the video, I see his back lifting and holding before stopping and going hollow again. (EX: look at 0:27-0:30) Having his back engaged is very hard work, so he's slowly getting there.

I would like the side reins a tad longer. He isn't ready for that shorter length.

He's heavy on his forehand which needs to be addressed via correct consistent riding with half halts. Lots of forward impulsion + half halts, will encourage your horse to sit back and drive with their hind legs.

But it's strenuous so treat it like conditioning. A little bit each time, the slowly increase.

But yes, PLEASE LENGTHEN THOSE SIDE REINS. Even one hole setting would improve Cinny's ability to engage that back and really stretch out

~~

Also some tips.. Sky used to rush too but if when he was walking and trotting and cantering, I'd verbally count his strides for him (set the tempo) and he'd change his feet to match it. It really helped him get his rhythm and think about where his feet were going.

Use little clicks not words for the best results.

You need to be pushing him forward with that whip. Going slow is doing nothing to help him get that back muscle going. It's just dumping him on his front and not letting him reach far under himself. He needs more forward forward forward.

Lunge large (as in the biggest circle ever) over trotting poles and that'll help him out a lot.

Make sure your lungeline hand/leading hand is in an "open" position, like out in front of you slightly to the side so your body is more open and clearer to interpret (body language). Same with your whip hand.. it needs to be in the open position as well.

These are tips, you don't have to listen but yeah. These things have helped Sky a lot.


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