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-   -   Discussion about Paints, specifically Breeding Stock Paints (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/discussion-about-paints-specifically-breeding-stock-13358/)

JustDressageIt 08-14-2008 11:09 PM

Discussion about Paints, specifically Breeding Stock Paints
 
I started this thought pattern in another thread, and instead of hijacking it, I thought I'd start a new thread.

If color is important in some breeds, such as paints, should it be a deciding factor on whether or not a stallion keeps his gonads? If a breed standard is to have color, such as in Paints, then why breed a Breeding Stock paint when the foal isn't guaranteed to have color? Why have a horse procreate that isn't itself an exceptional breed representative, where color is a requirement?
Now of course I'm saying that there are other factors in play here, such as conformation and all the rest, but color does come into play for some breeds... although it SHOULD be the icing on the cake, what about the points above?

AKPaintLover 08-15-2008 06:10 AM

I initially wanted to respond and say that breeding stock paints should not be allowed to be eligible sires with the APHA, but then I felt like a hypocrite...our AQHA mare is in foal to Dez, and I have already decided that if it is a filly (colored or solid) we will be keeping it for the potential of breeding at some point in the distant future. Of course, with any future breeding (if when finished, the filly is well conformed, athletic, well natured, and successful in its discipline), I have also decided that I will only use a homozygous stallion, so the mare being breeding stock does not really matter, but if we are talking breeding standard, then should it not apply to mares as well as stallions?? :)

I guess I don't have a straight answer...discuss on...:)

Broken A Ranch 08-15-2008 12:21 PM

A breeding stock can genetically be set up to throw color if bred correctly and that is the goal. I really dont think it should matter as much as the conformation and ability of the animal. Color should always be secondary to that

JustDressageIt 08-15-2008 01:10 PM

Yes, I agree that other factors come into play before color, as stated....

What about if a stallion has all the other qualities EXCEPT that he's a BS stallion? I'm not exactly sure how the genetics work behind it, if the horse can have a color gene but have it not expressed, but if it is a breed standard to have color, should we be "shunning" BS stallions because of their color? (Again, after a long list of other things, like conformation, mentality, etc... you can see my list of "requirements" in another thread)
I talk about stallions here just because with BS mares you can choose a homozygous stallion for color in the foal... it's harder to match the other way around.

JustDressageIt 08-15-2008 01:21 PM

I would just like to add that I have nothing against BS paints at all, just wanting to have a mature discussion about whether or not color should have an effect on a stud colt keeping his manhood or getting gelded.

Broken A Ranch 08-15-2008 01:52 PM

Really though, you can breed a BS stallion to a homozygous mare and get color just as easily. I think if he excels in the other qualifications for a stallion, he shouldnt be "shunned" because he is BS since that is pretty easily overcome with the right mare.

I would rather see registries kick it up a notch on banning N/H horses from being registered at all than worry that my stud doesn't have enough color to remain a stud.

My 2 cents.

aappyfan1 08-16-2008 11:28 AM

Personally I believe if it is a breed that is distinquished by colour then why have solids representing the breed? To me it just confuses people. I Have Appaloosas and have obtained the right mare etc. that bred with my Stallion produced colour both times. As well as personality, conformation,etc etc.When I look at a Paint or a Appaloosa It is the colour that draws me in first Then I look at the rest of how it is put together. I have a good friend that raises Paints and she does have some solid breeding stock, this year she got colour on all three of her foals.

brogan 08-16-2008 02:32 PM

my horse brogan was a APHA breeding stock stallion (he was gelded almost 2 years ago)

he was bred 3 times producing 1 was a tobiano 1 was a overo and 1 was a solid

with conformation aside-- solid paints can produce colored offspring, its all about genetics from both dam and sire and which gene comes out dominant

shizukanori 08-17-2008 12:32 AM

My breeding stock mare (shes not completely solid 2 socks w/star and snip) with both parents who were bs as well. She was breed to a Friesian and produced a filly with a star,almost a full blaze and a snip.
I guess what im trying to say is it depends on the genetics of a horse so the best bet is to breed with a stallion who has been tested homozygous (well in the case of my mare the stallion was homozygous for black lol) But although I understand the color thing you should first consider the temperament and conformation.

lizard13 08-27-2008 01:25 AM

My thoughts on the subject
 
http://www.horseforum.com/userpix/5021_Goldie_1.jpg I believe that Bs paints should be able to be registered AQHA so they are not a total waste I know that you would have to prove that they would not throw color but it would be worth it to me/ does anyone agree? I do believe APH's should have color but all they are is a quarter horse with white so i don't understand why the solid ones aren't just registered AQHA? this is my BS Goldie I love her bloodlines and for 2 generations they were all solid and she throws color but only when bred to a painted stallion so I think they should let me register her AQHA. Do you agree?


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