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-   -   What point should a horse start to jump? (http://www.horseforum.com/english-riding/what-point-should-horse-start-jump-140817/)

goingnowhere1 10-17-2012 07:45 PM

What point should a horse start to jump?
 
Okay, I checked multiple threads and posts to make sure I didn't overlap a thread, so I obviously have an issue ;)

My daughter joined her high school equestrian team (they do IEA shows) and she offered to let them use her leased horse, Lennon. Now, the trainer, Kara, (of the team, not my kid's) asked Emily if she can use Lennon for the jumping rounds (18", 2ft, 2'3, and 2'6) all at the canter. Emily said that she would ask her trainer, Kady, (who does eventing) if she thought Lennon was ready for it. Emily talked with Kady and the HJ trainer at the barn she works at if they thought Lennon would be okay for it (Emily said no) and they both said no. After Emily told Kara this, Kara said that Lennon was fully capable and that she wanted to go ride him herself to prove this. Emily said no and gave the reasons below... (The next paragraph is about Lennon and what Emily and him have been working on)

Okay, so Emily started to lease Lennon in July. Last year his owner, a different IEA trainer, used Lennon in all of the jump courses for IEA and decided to put him for lease now that she didn't need him. When she, owner, used Lennon she put him in a kimberwick because he has a rushing problem while jumping and cantering.
Since Emily has been leasing Lennon, she and Kady (her trainer) found that Lennon is VERY unbalanced at the canter, rushes at the canter, plows through the bit while cantering jumps, and has barely and balance while circling. Emily's working Barron's owner (and very knowledgeable trainer) said that Lennon's owner needed him for the show, so she rushed him into jumping and also that he needs to go back to the basics before he jumps (so he isn't so unbalanced) and that his owner "fixed" his rushing problem by putting him in a heavier bit, henceforth riding him front to back instead of back to front. Also, she labeled him a green jumper, even though he takes good spots, he just rushes like crazy and ignores the bit when jumping or cantering. By the way, Emily has put Lennon in an eggbutt (for her dressage stuff) and after three months she is able to almost calmly trot to a jump in this bit, if she canters he grabs the bit and goes, however he is better than he used to be in it. With the kimberwicke he does the exact same but he is almost perfect at the trot (with half halts) and is only a little rushy with the kimberwicke. (Tell my if I am spelling that wrong)
Emily told Kara that she didn't think he should be doing it because he is semi green and she has been converting him from that and she doesn't want someone to hop on him and go straight to their hands, which is what IEA kids would do. Kara blew up saying that Lennon did it last year, so he would be fine this year, and that Emily and her trainer has no idea what they are talking about.

So, from this info (and I may be able to post a video if I can figure it out)
Do you think that the kimberwicke is only a quick fix, because he has calmed down with the eggbutt after a while, or does he really need the kimberwicke to be functional?
Do you think Kara is right and that because Lennon did it last year he should do it this year, even though the kids will do the opposite of what we are trying to get him out of?
At what flat level should a horse be at to jump canter courses?
Because he is incapable of cantering balanced around courses should he not do IEA, even though he did it last year?

Thanks and sorry for the really long thread but Kara has been a major pain and because Lennon did IEA last year I want to say no, but Kara can say that he did so he is capable, just shouldn't.

Strange 10-18-2012 12:51 AM

I hate to sound rude, but I would tell Kara (the IEA coach) to shove it.

Do you think that the kimberwicke is only a quick fix, because he has calmed down with the eggbutt after a while, or does he really need the kimberwicke to be functional?
Yes, it was definitely a "quick fix". I put that in quotes because it obviously hasn't "fixed" anything.

Do you think Kara is right and that because Lennon did it last year he should do it this year, even though the kids will do the opposite of what we are trying to get him out of?
No, I do not agree with this "trainer."

At what flat level should a horse be at to jump canter courses?
A horse should be able to consistently perform a Training Level dressage test (walk, trot, canter in a balanced way, relaxing and stretching into a light contact, be able to calmly and correctly lengthen and shorten the trot and canter) and score adequately (I'd say AT LEAST high 50's). Some may disagree with this and say a horse can start jumping earlier, but I wouldn't jump a horse that couldn't do these things.

Because he is incapable of cantering balanced around courses should he not do IEA, even though he did it last year?
I would say he should not do IEA, especially since it sounds like your daughter is slowly but surely making progress with him. If the riders on her team are as you say (inclined to go straight to the hand, tense, not quiet in the seat and legs) then they will only make the poor horse more nervous and rushy.

Valentina 10-25-2012 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goingnowhere1 (Post 1722705)
... When she, owner, used Lennon she put him in a kimberwick because he has a rushing problem while jumping and cantering. This shows this horse should not be jumping yet - he needs to be worked on the flat to get his canter better - jumping makes the rushing problem worse. Once you've gotten the canter to be correct then you can start the jumping. Suggest jump 1 jump then halt - do NOT allow him to continue more than 5 strides after the jump.
Since Emily has been leasing Lennon, she and Kady (her trainer) found that Lennon is VERY unbalanced at the canter, rushes at the canter, plows through the bit while cantering jumps, and has barely and balance while circling. ...he needs to go back to the basics before he jumps Correct (so he isn't so unbalanced) and that his owner "fixed" his rushing problem by putting him in a heavier bit, henceforth riding him front to back instead of back to front. Correct Also, she labeled him a green jumper, even though he takes good spots, he just rushes like crazy and ignores the bit when jumping or cantering. Correct By the way, Emily has put Lennon in an eggbutt (for her dressage stuff) and after three months she is able to almost calmly trot to a jump in this bit Great - smart!!, if she canters he grabs the bit and goes, however he is better than he used to be in it. ...Emily told Kara that she didn't think he should be doing it because he is semi green Correct and she has been converting him from that and she doesn't want someone to hop on him and go straight to their hands, which is what IEA kids would do.Correct Kara blew up saying that Lennon did it last year, so he would be fine this year, and that Emily and her trainer has no idea what they are talking about. NOT Correct !!

So, from this info (and I may be able to post a video if I can figure it out)
Do you think that the kimberwicke is only a quick fix YES , because he has calmed down with the eggbutt after a while, or does he really need the kimberwicke to be functional? NO
....

See responses in red above.


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