The Horse Forum

The Horse Forum (/)
-   Horse Training (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/)
-   -   Help, What Am I Doing Wrong?! (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/help-what-am-i-doing-wrong-143840/)

finn113 11-17-2012 12:43 PM

Help, What Am I Doing Wrong?!
 
So I just got a new horse about two months ago and I have been doing lessons and training sessions with him to help him progress. He's been great up until the last two rides. The first ride he was way too forward and he wouldn't listen to me no matter what I did. So I just got so mad, I didn't want to scare him so I just cooled him out and got off because I was taught that when training a horse you should never get emotion and when you did, it was time to get off. That was Wednesday, I couldn't come Thursday so I went again yesterday (Friday). It was a million times worse. He wouldn't listen to me at all, was getting too fast, distracted and I was just soo mad. I brought him over trotting poles and he cantered away after them. At one point I got so mad that I said "fine, you want to go fast? Then let's go fast" and I made him gallop around for a minute and after we were done I felt soooooo much better and wasn't mad anymore. Btw cuz he was crazy at the trot I put my stirrups up two holes to see if it helped. After the whole gallop scenario I put him back into a trot, it was even worse than before, he was so crazy and so stupid that I literally dropped my reins at a posting trot and he kept trotting and was going all over the place when he is supposed to stop right on a dime. I put him into a circle and he went right into a canter, I yelled at him brought him down to walk and literally jumped off at a walk and walked away to see what he would do. He kept walking again instead of stopping. I went up grabbed his reins and walked out of the ring. I was so livid I even considered selling him at that point. I have no idea what his problem is but he needs to get over it. I have now put a harsher bit on his bridle and I'm hoping it helps. I might consider getting spurs but I'm not sure. I just don't know what I can do training wise without getting really mad. So I need your help. Please tell me what I can do to fix this problem. Specifically at keeping him focused and at a collected trot if he can do that then I would be extremely happy thanx!

montcowboy 11-17-2012 12:49 PM

sorry to hear its going badly. i find when im working horses.and its the same english or western is that horses get bored. tired of a routine work out. i change it up when i see signs of losing contact with them. ride outside of the arena some. when im training a reigning horse i find that for every hour i work in the arena they need a few hours out of it.doing other things. keep them enthused for working out. not sure if this might help.but it beats selling him..good luck.

Mochachino 11-17-2012 12:54 PM

Are these new behaviors that have just developed over the past two months. No indications of this when he first came to you?

finn113 11-17-2012 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montcowboy (Post 1761659)
sorry to hear its going badly. i find when im working horses.and its the same english or western is that horses get bored. tired of a routine work out. i change it up when i see signs of losing contact with them. ride outside of the arena some. when im training a reigning horse i find that for every hour i work in the arena they need a few hours out of it.doing other things. keep them enthused for working out. not sure if this might help.but it beats selling him..good luck.

Thank you, that actually sounds like a great idea when I get back from ny I will try that and see if it works thank you so much! Oh and I would never sell him I love him too much lol

finn113 11-17-2012 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mochachino (Post 1761665)
Are these new behaviors that have just developed over the past two months. No indications of this when he first came to you?

Well at first he was fine. He has always been fast cuz he is a green 8 year old, but usually I just slow my posting, seesaw the reins, or do checks with the reins and he will come back to me. The last two rides he hasn't listened to any of that though.

Peppy Barrel Racing 11-17-2012 01:04 PM

Needs lots of ground work. He is totally bossing you. Need to lunge him lots of direction changes get him paying attention to you. Don't let him run for awhile lots of walk trot walk trot.
Posted via Mobile Device

PunksTank 11-17-2012 01:13 PM

I'm going to say pain may be involved here. Some horses throw bucking fits - others run right through the pain.
Get all of his tack checked, particularly the bit/his mouth. I find horses with issues with their bit or mouth will have a tendency to say "ouch this hurts, mom listen! Ouch this hurts - screw this I'm just gonna GOO!!" Do you use a rubber covered bit? I find sometimes those get chewed up and get very sharp. Are you relying too much on the bit for riding? If you're riding his mouth all the time you're just teaching him that heavy reins do not mean stop. Nagging on his mouth with seesawing or checking may be making the issues worse if it is a mouth/bit issue. What bit are you using? Maybe it's too severe? If you don't have a noseband that holds his mouth shut will he gape his mouth with light work? Is the bit hitting his pallet? If it's a twisted bit, is it symmetrical on both sides? This is going to sound funny but I've seen this all too often xD Twisted mouth pieces that aren't symmetrical, if you take the bit off to clean the bridle or something, and put it back on so the original left side is now on the right (essentially turning it upside down) the twisted points are in new spots on their mouth that haven't gotten used to that intense pressure, so now the horse flips a gaskit!

I don't as often see horses run through back pain, but I have seen it happen with good horses who know bucking is a death sentence, so they just bomb through it. So I would check his everything, but particularly the mouth/bit.

Is there a reason you decided not to just work him in smaller circles? Have you taught him a solid one-rein stop for emergencies.

Personally, I agree with the idea of 'making going fast your idea' but asking a hot, excited horses to gallop, then expecting him to stop is silly. If you're going to use that you better be prepared to gallop quite a while. Go until he's ready to stop then ask for a bit more - assuming this isn't a pain issue!!!!
If this were my horse, after ruling out pain I'd work him in a low relaxed walk, doing many small figures through the ring. Never letting him go straight long enough to really pick up speed. Then when he's got it relaxed and easy at the walk, work on a relaxed, easy trot.

Has your instructor been with you when he's done this? What do they say about the situation?

finn113 11-17-2012 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peppy Barrel Racing (Post 1761673)
Needs lots of ground work. He is totally bossing you. Need to lunge him lots of direction changes get him paying attention to you. Don't let him run for awhile lots of walk trot walk trot.
Posted via Mobile Device

I have been doing lots of that and that was the first time I have cantered him in about two weeks. I have been doing figure 8, and serpentines,lots of w/t or t/w transitions. I have done halting, backing and a ton of circles. I try to do less and less circles because with his previous owner that was all she did with him so I'm trying to expose him to new things. One thing that and pardon my language, pisses me off is that I'm apparently not allowed to do any jumping with him anymore because according to my instructor "I make him nervous" when all I do are cross rails, so I haven't been doing those, I do trotting poles when they are laid out. So I have been doing pretty much everything with him except jumping. I even try to make it fun and ride bareback sometimes, I did a trail once with him and my friends but I suppose I could get his mind focused again by doing more trails. I do pivots, and stretching exercises too. Thanx for posting!

finn113 11-17-2012 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PunksTank (Post 1761681)
I'm going to say pain may be involved here. Some horses throw bucking fits - others run right through the pain.
Get all of his tack checked, particularly the bit/his mouth. I find horses with issues with their bit or mouth will have a tendency to say "ouch this hurts, mom listen! Ouch this hurts - screw this I'm just gonna GOO!!" Do you use a rubber covered bit? I find sometimes those get chewed up and get very sharp. Are you relying too much on the bit for riding? If you're riding his mouth all the time you're just teaching him that heavy reins do not mean stop. Nagging on his mouth with seesawing or checking may be making the issues worse if it is a mouth/bit issue. What bit are you using? Maybe it's too severe? If you don't have a noseband that holds his mouth shut will he gape his mouth with light work? Is the bit hitting his pallet? If it's a twisted bit, is it symmetrical on both sides? This is going to sound funny but I've seen this all too often xD Twisted mouth pieces that aren't symmetrical, if you take the bit off to clean the bridle or something, and put it back on so the original left side is now on the right (essentially turning it upside down) the twisted points are in new spots on their mouth that haven't gotten used to that intense pressure, so now the horse flips a gaskit!

I don't as often see horses run through back pain, but I have seen it happen with good horses who know bucking is a death sentence, so they just bomb through it. So I would check his everything, but particularly the mouth/bit.

Is there a reason you decided not to just work him in smaller circles? Have you taught him a solid one-rein stop for emergencies.

Personally, I agree with the idea of 'making going fast your idea' but asking a hot, excited horses to gallop, then expecting him to stop is silly. If you're going to use that you better be prepared to gallop quite a while. Go until he's ready to stop then ask for a bit more - assuming this isn't a pain issue!!!!
If this were my horse, after ruling out pain I'd work him in a low relaxed walk, doing many small figures through the ring. Never letting him go straight long enough to really pick up speed. Then when he's got it relaxed and easy at the walk, work on a relaxed, easy trot.

Has your instructor been with you when he's done this? What do they say about the situation?

Wow lots of questions. My instructor has seen me but just kinda stares at me lol and knows not to say anything when I'm pissed. Ummm as far as bit goes I just changed it but I don't know which one it is but it's not twisted and its also a d-ring. The one I had before was a full cheek but again not sure what type, but its not harsh at all, that why I changed it to the harsher one I have now. It could have been the bit but when I first got him I used that bit and it was fine so idk. I have noticed small cracks at one corner of his mouth so perhaps it's the bit, but it may be resolved now that I have changed it, we will have to see speaking that I don't return home from ny until Friday night. He has a sensitive back but I know for a fact that its not the saddle cuz that was his previous one prior from when I first got him, it was specially made to fit his back, so it's not that. And yes I agree it was stupid to gallop him around like that but when your POed u do stupid things lol. When I was bringing him down from the gallop he wouldnt listen so yes, I did do a one rein stop. And yes, he is very well trained in circles but his previous owner only did circles with him so I'm trying to expose his brain to other thing besides circles.

PunksTank 11-17-2012 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finn113 (Post 1761693)
Wow lots of questions. My instructor has seen me but just kinda stares at me lol and knows not to say anything when I'm pissed. Ummm as far as bit goes I just changed it but I don't know which one it is but it's not twisted and its also a d-ring. The one I had before was a full cheek but again not sure what type, but its not harsh at all, that why I changed it to the harsher one I have now. It could have been the bit but when I first got him I used that bit and it was fine so idk. I have noticed small cracks at one corner of his mouth so perhaps it's the bit, but it may be resolved now that I have changed it, we will have to see speaking that I don't return home from ny until Friday night. He has a sensitive back but I know for a fact that its not the saddle cuz that was his previous one prior from when I first got him, it was specially made to fit his back, so it's not that. And yes I agree it was stupid to gallop him around like that but when your POed u do stupid things lol. When I was bringing him down from the gallop he wouldnt listen so yes, I did do a one rein stop. And yes, he is very well trained in circles but his previous owner only did circles with him so I'm trying to expose his brain to other thing besides circles.

Sounds like you need an instructor who can actually help you - one who just backs off because your angry isn't helping anything. It also sounds like you know exactly what you should do to help him calm down but chose something else? When exposing a horse who's only ever done small figures- to big figures, he'll need time to realize he doesn't need to race through it.

As for the bit! YES if there are cracks on his mouth his bit is seriously not right for him! What mouth piece is in his mouth? Full cheek and D ring are only slightly different, but the part that's in his mouth is what really effects him. Does it have a single joint? The single joint could be hitting his pallet if he has a low pallet. Was the previous one double jointed?
Honestly, if a horse is acting up- using a harsher bit is the worst option IMO. It just hurts them more.
If a horse won't respond to the bit your using he needs to be better trained, the only time to change bits is if they're not comfortable in a bit or if they're learning a new skill that would benefit from a more clear bit - not because they stopped listening to the first.
Give him his comfortable bit back -Go back to the basics, walk trot, don't even canter, work on small relaxed figures, gradually, slowly making them larger, adding short straight lines. Whenever he starts to get worked up go a little smaller on your figures.
The next crucial thing for you to remember - the more worked up you are the more worked up your horse is. The angrier you are the angrier he's getting. He's saying "dammit MOM Can't you see ____ is wrong?!" and you're saying "dammit horse can't you see you need to do ____?!" But neither of you are listening. So take a deep breath, relax - do it for your horses sake. Soften your body - focus on happy thoughts, remember you're riding your horse and this is awesome! Not many people get to have a horse of their own they can ride all the time, you are lucky and this is fantastic and fun! Enjoy it! Horses are supposed to be enjoyable. Everytime you think of something negative fight it.
"I'm so happy I can ride my pony, he's doing a good relaxed walk" if your thought turns to "but he wont___" Quickly change that though to "but he is ____ ___ and ____"

So fix your bit, relax the horse, relax yourself and take time to enjoy your horse!!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:21 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0