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-   -   B&W Tobiano... right? (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-colors-genetics/b-w-tobiano-right-144607/)

nikelodeon79 11-25-2012 12:31 AM

B&W Tobiano... right?
 
I believe my new boy is a black & white tobiano... but I've read a few posts that said if a horse fades he isn't "true black" and he definitely fades.

Is there anything else going on color wise? I'm not familiar with how to tell frame, splash, etc.

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...pseac4d500.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps835cac43.jpg

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i.../meeclipse.jpg

Fading:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...es/eclipse.jpg

Chiilaa 11-25-2012 12:32 AM

Yup fading black. As for other white, I would say frame - the way the white spreads on his face above his eyes is a frame screamer to me :-P

NdAppy 11-25-2012 12:34 AM

Just out out of curiosity... can you post pics of him in full winter coat?

nikelodeon79 11-25-2012 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NdAppy (Post 1771214)
Just out out of curiosity... can you post pics of him in full winter coat?

I'll get current pics of him... he should have his full winter coat soon.

Here's a pic the prior owner took of him in the kill pen from this past January:
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/i...rses/Oscar.jpg

verona1016 11-25-2012 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikelodeon79 (Post 1771206)
I believe my new boy is a black & white tobiano... but I've read a few posts that said if a horse fades he isn't "true black" and he definitely fades.

It's not whether or not a horse fades that tells whether or not it's true black- there are both non-fading and fading black horses (likely due to a gene or combination of genes that has been identified yet) Lots of people think that fading is a sign of homozygous vs heterozygous black horses, but this isn't true either.

The best way to tell a horse's true color is is to see pictures of it in summer and winter, but particularly in its winter coat. This is because some colors & patterns change from season to season. The seasonal variation that is considered one of the indicators of brown is differenrt from the sun fading that horses of any color can display; it largely affects the "soft points" like the muzzle, behind the elbow, at the flank, etc. A sun faded horse is more likely to show fading from the top down- where it gets the most sun exposure.

caljane 11-25-2012 08:57 PM

Since his face/muzzle is not fading I agrre that he is genetically black. And a Tobiano, doubtless. I don't see signs of frame, his star is big but still a normal marking for solid horses and tobianos.
Lucky fo him that you found him - way too pretty horse for the killer pen!

Chiilaa 11-25-2012 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caljane (Post 1772267)
Since his face/muzzle is not fading I agrre that he is genetically black. And a Tobiano, doubtless. I don't see signs of frame, his star is big but still a normal marking for solid horses and tobianos.
Lucky fo him that you found him - way too pretty horse for the killer pen!

"Normal" face white is still being caused by a white patterning gene. For example, this mare Spice (belongs to Kansas Spice Girl, a forum member), has no other white on her body except for this star. I instantly thought of frame when I saw it, and her owner subsequently had her tested for it. She does indeed have frame. No doubt you can see the similarity between her star and the OP's horse.

http://www.horseforum.com/horses/pho...91fe0_full.jpg

caljane 11-25-2012 09:35 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiilaa (Post 1772325)
"Normal" face white is still being caused by a white patterning gene. For example, this mare Spice (belongs to Kansas Spice Girl, a forum member), has no other white on her body except for this star. I instantly thought of frame when I saw it, and her owner subsequently had her tested for it. She does indeed have frame. No doubt you can see the similarity between her star and the OP's horse.

*hm* I don't really understand the concept to blame every white marking on a frame gene.
This one was tested - no frame:

Chiilaa 11-25-2012 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caljane (Post 1772346)
*hm* I don't really understand the concept to blame every white marking on a frame gene.
This one was tested - no frame:

I am not saying EVERY face white is frame, but that they are the result of one of the "big four" genes - splash, sabino, frame and tobiano. Obviously, tobiano doesn't cause face white, and frame doesn't cause leg white. However, every white on the horse that is a marking and not scarring has to be caused by one of the white patterning genes, and these four in particular are mostly responsible for this.

SunnyMeadeFarm 11-27-2012 04:17 PM

I suppose I would agree frame for the face, but the body whites trait toward Tobiano because of the chest and flank area being colored and it going over the back/whithers, isn't it rare for frame to have 'ghosting' compared to Tobiano? Just curious.

also, I'd say she defiantly a black that just fades.


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