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Neglect in many of the horses - Animal control looks the other way

6K views 34 replies 13 participants last post by  Jalter 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
#3 ·
Still ongoing. With the help of a horse rescue, we have got the county animal control to come take a look. Because of the setup, its more complicated than it should be. The city owns the stables, so it's gonna be a political issue. We live 200 miles from the nearest town, so I'm suprised county came. They saw my video and showed it to the sheriff.

Updates are on abusewatch.wordpress.com
 
#4 ·
One rescue accused me of being a pissy teenager looking for something to rant about, and said there is nothing wrong with the horses. Today, the Humane Society contacted me back finally, I gave them my contact information, and I'm waiting for a reply.

Updates are on abusewatch.wordpress.com
 
#9 ·
Hate to say it.. but I have seen worse (MUCH worse) and have rescued a few and rehabbed/resold the outcome of those rescues.

You probably need to look at the Ag and Markets law with regard to Livestock in your state and locality. Horses are usually considered Livestock under most jurisdictions and all that is required is feed, water and shelter. If the animals have those things and those things are deemed adequate, then you are all done.

IMO most of the horses look to be fed enough food. Most appeared to have clean water. Some could stand farrier work. Most of the shelters looked inadequate (unsafe) IMO for keeping horses. Some of the corral enclosures also looked unsafe for horses (IMO). Some corrals had little manure control but seemed dry.

It is a "self help" stable with space rented. The individual owners are who have to be gone after. You need to read a typical rental arrangement to know who is responsible for maintaining fences or shelters. Again, if it is a triple net rental agreement, the shelters can be the responsibility of the renter.

IOW's it is likely a bit more complex than politics.....
 
#13 ·
Hate to say it.. but I have seen worse (MUCH worse) and have rescued a few and rehabbed/resold the outcome of those rescues.

You probably need to look at the Ag and Markets law with regard to Livestock in your state and locality. Horses are usually considered Livestock under most jurisdictions and all that is required is feed, water and shelter. If the animals have those things and those things are deemed adequate, then you are all done.

IMO most of the horses look to be fed enough food. Most appeared to have clean water. Some could stand farrier work. Most of the shelters looked inadequate (unsafe) IMO for keeping horses. Some of the corral enclosures also looked unsafe for horses (IMO). Some corrals had little manure control but seemed dry.

It is a "self help" stable with space rented. The individual owners are who have to be gone after. You need to read a typical rental arrangement to know who is responsible for maintaining fences or shelters. Again, if it is a triple net rental agreement, the shelters can be the responsibility of the renter.

IOW's it is likely a bit more complex than politics.....

I agree 100% The truth is that animal control has minimum standards. If the animal has adequate food, water and shelter (which most of these do) they can't do much. I agree that some of the feet were bad and the "adequate shelter" needs some help to be safe. Sadly, I have seen a lot lot worse then that. My friend who is the head of AC here always says "I can make them feed the animal, I can make them provide shelter, but I can't make them love them. "

Some of us (all on here, likely) have much higher standards then many others in the animal world. Some do better if they can, some don't know how and some can't afford it. I am a believer in educating people in a polite and kind manner often gets one further then complaints and rude comment. (not saying you did that) Sometimes the road is long and slow but the animal is the one who we should focus on.
 
#10 ·
Like Elana said they look to have food and water horses dont look to be skinny either. I know around here if they have food and water local sheriffs wont do a thing. Iv seen alot worse then that myself. I rescued one 10 years ago was hide and bones. Yeah shelters are unsafe but at least they have shelter. The hoofs arent great but again iv seen worse there too.
 
#11 ·
Looks horrible, I wouldn't dream of my horses every being in such a condition.

But there is likely little a rescue will do. With so much overcrowding, they simply will not go get horses who have been fed... because frankly that is more than a lot of horses get these days.

It's horrible, and it's sad, but I don't think you're going to get much help from full to the brim rescues :(
 
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#14 ·
I understand this isn't the city's fault that the horses are like this. Either way, the majority of these horses are going without basic needs of the horse. Yes it is the owner's fault, I'm not defending anyone. But if the city could make better guidelines and enforce them then things would be a lot better. Many of these people don't know the first thing about horses, so they don't realize they are harming the horse. That's what needs to change.
 
#16 · (Edited)
The city can't make up and enforce guidelines on a self care place. If it was a city run stable that employed people to work there, then they could come up with hard and fast rules and regs. But it's not, and they can't.

I agree that the shelters are unsafe garbage, but if people are willing to put their horses in them there's nothing anyone can do if AC won't get involved. Didn't you say there was a police officer who boarded his horse there? Why would a sworn officer of the law even consider putting his horse in that dump? That actually amazes me, and not in a good way.

The majority of the horses look to be in good weight, their pens aren't 4 feet high in manure and urine, and except for some obvious physical issues and long feet that need to be addressed, there really isn't anything that AC can do. They're not emaciated, and they have food and water.
 
#17 ·
The city can't make up and enforce guidelines on a self care place.

If it was a city run stable that employed people to work there, then they could come up with hard and fast rules and regs. But it's not, and they can't.
It is city run stable and people are employed to work there. I don't see why they can't change the guidelines. They make rules all the time, they just don't enforce them. One of the recent rules was no one is allowed on the property after dark (that started because some drunks stuck a beer bottle up a horse's *ss). They enforced that rule for about a week. They also have guidelines on the shelters, but have never enforced that.
 
#18 ·
Also, I have gotten the Humane Society's attention. They said they are going to talk to the State Director, and then file a complaint with the responding officer. I understand a rescue can't do much, but she has been a big help. She is very well known in this area, and she is persistent. She is coming with me on Monday to talk to the city. Believe me, she get's what she wants.
 
#24 ·
I'm not being inconsistent. It's a confusing set up, and I've tried to explain it, but no one is understanding. I am making progress though. The Humane Society is understanding what I'm saying.

Ill try to explain this again: The city owns the stables and hires people to monitor it and collect the rent. Those people don't do their job properly. The owners are 100% responsible for their horses, there are no stable hands. The employees are supposed to make sure the horses are getting proper care, but do not know what to look for, therefore, do not do anything about the problems.

Does that make any sense? I don't know how else to explain it. It's not like normal stables. You get a 30x30ft box stall, with nothing but dirt. It is up to the horse owner to build a shelter, and all of that.
 
#21 ·
Now here is a question.. Jalter would like the City to change its regulations and enforce them. OK. How does Jalter expect the city to pay for this enforcement and who will have the authority to enforce? What will be the punishment for non compliance? Who will invoke the punishment for non compliance? How will the more stringent rules be interpreted?

Raise the stall rent to pay for the enforcement sounds like an answer.. until you investigate the competition (cannot over price the stable rent).

Another thought.. IF the city is convinced that closing the facility is in their best interest, what happens to the horses? In the current market I bet more than a few end up at a slaughterhouse. Is that more humane than what they are exposed to in this facility?

I am not saying it is a great place. I am saying that while you are outraged and emotional about this.. you need to set all that aside and get your facts and be able to answer these questions (and others I have posed).

Why am I asking this stuff? Been involved in trying to get a couple of animal abusers brought to justice. It ain't as easy as it would seem.
 
#23 ·
They already pay people to sit on their butts and pretend to do their jobs. May be they can use the same people, but they'll them to address the problems if they want to keep their jobs. Just simple things, like call the owner and tell them that their horse's shelter is a hazard, and they need to fix it. They have the right to evict any of them, so even if they threaten that, people may straighten up.

Also, raising the rent probably won't hurt them. This is the only stable for 200 miles, there is no competition. I have talked to a few rescues, between them all, they have room for about 65 horses. There are about 55 horses in the stables. So if it were shut down, then there are places for the horses to go if the owners couldn't sell them.

And I never said it would be easy. That's probably why no one else has even tried to get anything done. Easy or not, things need to change.
 
#26 ·
What I want to know, is what do you want to be done? Who is going to pay for it? Horses arn't cheap, The condition they are kept might not be to the highest of standards, but at least they are fed, clean water, and have shelter. That is more than most people these days.
 
#28 ·
If you people are intent on trying to make it seem like I'm doing this all for nothing, then why don't you go complain to someone else. What's the point of arguing with me? I am trying to help these horses. The Humane Society agrees that there is something that can be done, so as long as there is that hope, I'm going to continue weather you b*tch at me or not. What more do you want?
 
#29 ·
I also have a case like this. A guy has 3+ quarter horses, and 3 minis. There is one mini foal and at least one quarter horse foal. We have called the sheriffs department and they said, they have dealt with this guy before and he is hard to deal with and they probably won't do anything. Those were their exact words. It's really bothering me. The minis rarely have water, and they rarely get hay. They are fed potatoes and lettuce. They are kept in about a 10x10 outdoor pen with no shelter. We live in a small town and our sheriffs just don't care.
 
#30 ·
Then let the humane society deal with it but really not one horse is skinny they have food and water.The rescues are full i honestly dont think the humane society will do a thing theres hay and water and horses are being fed. Iv dealt with this stuff before unless the horses have no food and water the humane society does NOTHING. Yeah the shelters a horrid but at least they have shelter. You cant save them all your just going to have to face that fact. If i rescued every horse i saw that was negelected id have over 200 horses right now. I just take the best care of the ones i own and try to keep them till they die.
 
#32 · (Edited)
I don't see anyone arguing with you, we're merely pointing out things from a real life standpoint based on years of experience. You don't yet have that experience, so don't understand that in certain circumstances AC's hands are tied.

The horses have food, water, and (crappy) shelter. Their basic needs are being met, and honestly that's all AC is concerned with.

There are just simply too many horses, and rescues are full up. If the animals were in imminent danger of starving to death, you might get someone interested. Since there really are starving animals out there, animals who are at least being fed and cared for someone what properly just aren't considered to be high risk.

This is your personal crusade and I can see why you're upset because I find those 'shelters' appalling, and the hoof neglect is distressing. Unfortunately, with so many in need, those who are less in need fall to the bottom of the help list.
 
#33 ·
As of two weeks ago, this is the current condition:
Horses condition as of 2.1.13 | Abuse Watch

Horses condition as of 2.1.13
FEBRUARY 2, 2013 BY JALTER95
Today, I went down to the stables, to actually count things out and give you guys a better idea of the numbers (believe me, not an easy task when most of the people down there hate me).

There are 55 horses on the property. Seven horses are in closed off stalls, and I cannot report their condition or their stall’s condition (the rest of these numbers exclude these seven horses).

Nine horses go without shelter altogether (this winter has hit record lows at -10 degrees). 21 shelters are excessively hazardous, or are piled high with muck (excluding the stalls with no shelters).

Twelve horses have bad hooves (too short, too long, deformed, rotted, elf hoof, etc.).

29 horses regularly have no water, or disgusting water that none of them will even touch.

Only one horse is excessively skinny. Two recently died of starvation. On the bright side, two skinny horses I was concerned about have gained a healthy amount of weight in the past month or so.
 
#34 ·
This city is not responsible for the conditions of the shelters. The owners of the horses have put up their own shelters. The city is leasing the land from the BLM. The living conditions are the responsibility of the horse owners, good and bad. Most of the horses are healthy. The city is not responsible for the care of each individuals horses. As horse owners, we are each responsible for the care of our horses, their living conditions, etc. The only ones at fault for the bad living conditions are the horse owners themselves. This summer, each owner with a shelter is to tear their shelters down by the end of August. If they want the new shelters being put in by the city, they (we) must sign a new lease by the end of June. Those whom opt for the new shelters will sign a new 1 year lease and pay $60 a month. Not at all bad if you ask me. Those who opt out will continue to pay the current amount of $30 a month. As far as the horses that have died, this is also due to owner neglect and nothing to do with the city. Big changes are coming, and are certainly for the better. There will no longer be ugly shelters that look like they are being held together by a thread with ugly carpets for 'doors', as some have now. Again, none of the current shelters were put up by the city. In order for them to keep tenant costs low, they allowed those who wanted shelters to put up their own. I like the new upgrades coming as it will be more welcoming in appearance. Most people neglecting and starving their horses have moved on, and most of the remaining tenants keep very healthy horses and spend much time working with them.
 
#35 ·
I understand that the individual issues are not the city's problem, but they own the stables, they have the power to say "your horse must recieve the basic needs, otherwise you can find another place to keep it".

I am happy with the changes as well. I haven't been down there in about two months, but I know things are going much better.
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