The Horse Forum

The Horse Forum (/)
-   Horse Trainers (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-trainers/)
-   -   CA method refresher? (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-trainers/ca-method-refresher-145119/)

Baylen Jaxs 11-29-2012 09:43 PM

CA method refresher?
 
The gelding I had been training went home and his owner was pleased with what he seen in riding ect.

After he left 2 days later I got 3 TB's to train, one because of crowhopping issues and lazyness. The other 2 he just wants conditioned. When the first one hopped out of the trailer I could tell he was the calmer of the 3 and was well behaved. The second one that came out, I could tell from right there he had disrespect issues. Was pawing the ground because he didn't let him loose fast enough, yes he was impatient. But the day after he came my Boyfriend was out there with me just messing around with them. And the 3 year old lifted his leg and tried to paw at my boyfriend, boyfriend popped him for it. This horse also likes to show his butt to you a LOT.


I knew this horse had disrespect issues, just didn't know how bad till today. He wouldn't let me catch him to do some ground work with him. So we manged to get him into the round pen and I went to round penning him. From the first made full circle he was pissed. He started kicking out, I couldn't get after him for it, as all I had was a halter and it wasn't long enough to slap his ass. He got braver and started buck kicking. Last straw was when he came 10 foot from me acting like he wanted to charge. I got out not because I was afraid, but because I had nothing to get after him with but a nylon lead rope that probably would have done nothing.

I am a HUGE CA user. And have seen his round penning aggressive horses before. But I need a refresher. I know to get in there and work him and anytime he acts out towards me punish him for it. I was trying to find a video of him doing it but couldn't.

This makes me sound like I have no idea what I'm doing. But I assure you I do, my mare was almost the same way and I used the same method on her, but its been so long. I cannot remember some of it. I plan on going out and buying a long lunge whip tomorrow. For some reason my other one dissapered.

Conway 11-29-2012 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baylen Jaxs (Post 1778361)
The gelding I had been training went home and his owner was pleased with what he seen in riding ect.

After he left 2 days later I got 3 TB's to train, one because of crowhopping issues and lazyness. The other 2 he just wants conditioned. When the first one hopped out of the trailer I could tell he was the calmer of the 3 and was well behaved. The second one that came out, I could tell from right there he had disrespect issues. Was pawing the ground because he didn't let him loose fast enough, yes he was impatient. But the day after he came my Boyfriend was out there with me just messing around with them. And the 3 year old lifted his leg and tried to paw at my boyfriend, boyfriend popped him for it. This horse also likes to show his butt to you a LOT.


I knew this horse had disrespect issues, just didn't know how bad till today. He wouldn't let me catch him to do some ground work with him. So we manged to get him into the round pen and I went to round penning him. From the first made full circle he was pissed. He started kicking out, I couldn't get after him for it, as all I had was a halter and it wasn't long enough to slap his ass. He got braver and started buck kicking. Last straw was when he came 10 foot from me acting like he wanted to charge. I got out not because I was afraid, but because I had nothing to get after him with but a nylon lead rope that probably would have done nothing.

I am a HUGE CA user. And have seen his round penning aggressive horses before. But I need a refresher. I know to get in there and work him and anytime he acts out towards me punish him for it. I was trying to find a video of him doing it but couldn't.

This makes me sound like I have no idea what I'm doing. But I assure you I do, my mare was almost the same way and I used the same method on her, but its been so long. I cannot remember some of it. I plan on going out and buying a long lunge whip tomorrow. For some reason my other one dissapered.


What does CA stand for?

And may I ask why you would want to slap him or punish him?

LesandLily 11-29-2012 10:23 PM

I too use the Method and have had it work well on several different types of horses. The big thing with this type of disrespect (kicking, ear pinning etc.) at least from Clintons point of view is the discipline must be swift, well timed and firm. In one of his videos he uses an Australian stock whip. A bull whip would be my method of choice as it has some sting to it but most importantly it has bite AND noise giving it a double whammy.

Whips can be difficult to use effectively without some practice and realistically you can probably get the same effect from a handy stick with a leather popper on the end. I don't use the CA handy stick but instead made my own. I took a four foot piece of fiberglass electric fencing rod and drilled a hole in the end and threaded thru a length of rope halter rope from an old stiff rope halter. On the end of that I attached a 8 inch piece if rawhide string as a popper. Nice thing is that the total cost was about $4 for the post. I like that better than a lunge whip as it has as much bite but I find it easier to use and handle.

Get in there on him fast as soon as he shows any disrespect and get out just as fast. If you show him that disrespect means work and a sore butt, the alternative (quiet calm behavior) becomes a much better choice. What Clinton shows is not really rocket science it just makes so much sense, he teaches you how to get in and get out and recognize the behavior signs and remember to reward the slightest try. No shades of grey...total black and white. Screaming banshee...back to calm *****cat.

I have only had one horse that I trained give me any real disrespect and it was only once. Met with a wild man on crack, he decided he liked my other personality better. :twisted:

Good luck and have fun!

Cheers!
Les

Baylen Jaxs 11-29-2012 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conway (Post 1778393)
What does CA stand for?

And may I ask why you would want to slap him or punish him?



Clinton Anderson. And to punish so he knows kicking out and charging me is WRONG and he should't do it.

LesandLily 11-29-2012 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conway (Post 1778393)
What does CA stand for?

And may I ask why you would want to slap him or punish him?

CA stands for Clinton Anderson.

I guess I look at how I discipline my horses similar to how they deal with themselves. A lead mare doesn't put her arm around that little gelding and give him a firm talking to if he over steps his bounds. She pins her ears...step one. Then shakes her head...step two. Finally she lands a hoof where he doesn't want it. Step three. Enough repetitions of that and he moves when she pins her ears.

as gentle as possible and as firm as necessary. Before I started doing a lot of training I had issue with the concept of hitting your horse. A couple of things changed my mind. First, is they have a very physical way of dealing with each other. Their bodies are built to take a double back foot kick from another horse. Such a blow wouldn't hurt you or I...it would destroy us. I watched my gelding kick another (he got too close to HIS mare) gelding in the chest both hind legs...a hard Whumpf I could almost feel. Didn't hardly faze him. There is nothing that I can do with a fiberglass stick and a string to that horse that could come ANYWHERE close to that. However, I can make him think I can.

Secondly was that the concept of beating a horse is not the same as giving them a firm whack with a stick. Beatings continue long after the horse has given the right answer and continue with no reason or purpose. A firm whack says LISTEN or DON'T DO THAT. As soon as the right answer is given...back to calm *****cat. Just like the mare in the pasture. If you apply firm pressure correctly AFTER asking nicely (pinning your ears) they learn to listen to the subtle cues and respond lightly and softly. That is exactly how their mother made them listen.

Where most people go wrong is not asking gently first in a process of ask, tell, demand. A horse will only get as light as the first ask. Some horses never require an ounce of stick therapy (my gelding has NEVER been hit by the stick). My daughters horse never took me seriously and we went round and rounds of ask tell demand before he did. Now, we have his respect and he moves at the slightest suggestion...most of the time. :lol: lazy beast! :lol:

In the case of a horse kicking out or charging as the OPs horse did...there is no ask, tell, demand. It is NO not acceptable. Then back to calm *****cat. I often have tried to think of myself as another horse in the pasture when doing and try to think..."how would they respond?"

I am sorry this is so long and probably totally not what you were looking for but I just had a conversation like this with a friend today and it got me on a roll. I hope the OP has good luck with her horse and gets over his disrespect issues.

Cheers.
Les

Conway 11-29-2012 11:28 PM

Thank you so much. That was extremely helpful. I guess I have just never been to that point, never dealth with a truly aggressive/ rude to the point of dangerous horse.

July is pushy now because he hasnt been handled properly in months. But we are working on it. At what point do you decide that a physical reprimand is in order? He gets pushy when being led or standing and he gets bored, he will nearly knock you over. I give a firm "NO" and ask him to step back into place, if he continues I ask him to move his feet, side step, back, something... When he stops moving if he is calm I let him rest, if he starts that pushing again we move...

Am I missing a step here?

Baylen Jaxs 11-29-2012 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conway (Post 1778505)
Thank you so much. That was extremely helpful. I guess I have just never been to that point, never dealth with a truly aggressive/ rude to the point of dangerous horse.

July is pushy now because he hasnt been handled properly in months. But we are working on it. At what point do you decide that a physical reprimand is in order? He gets pushy when being led or standing and he gets bored, he will nearly knock you over. I give a firm "NO" and ask him to step back into place, if he continues I ask him to move his feet, side step, back, something... When he stops moving if he is calm I let him rest, if he starts that pushing again we move...

Am I missing a step here?

Nope! You are on the right track! When he pushes and you have firmly asked him to stop and he continues. Push him back meteorically speaking. Move he's feet hard and let him know, if he's gonna push you around your gonna push him around harder. Get after him for it and let him know that pushing you around isn't the right choice.

At what point do you decided a physical reprimand is in order? When the horse gets out of hand and is just being plain naughty. Horses use body movements and when they realize that pushing you around works, they'll do it again and again. Just like if a horse went into the wire and pushed and when he realize it gave he kept pushing because he knew he could get through. Once horses realize they can do something and get away with it, they continue to do so with out thought about it. That's what forms a bad habit. Or a disrespectful behavior.

Conway 11-30-2012 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baylen Jaxs (Post 1778520)
Nope! You are on the right track! When he pushes and you have firmly asked him to stop and he continues. Push him back meteorically speaking. Move he's feet hard and let him know, if he's gonna push you around your gonna push him around harder. Get after him for it and let him know that pushing you around isn't the right choice.

At what point do you decided a physical reprimand is in order? When the horse gets out of hand and is just being plain naughty. Horses use body movements and when they realize that pushing you around works, they'll do it again and again. Just like if a horse went into the wire and pushed and when he realize it gave he kept pushing because he knew he could get through. Once horses realize they can do something and get away with it, they continue to do so with out thought about it. That's what forms a bad habit. Or a disrespectful behavior.


BIG thanks! July is BAD about pushing through the dang fence. We had to add hot wire to all of it :/

usandpets 11-30-2012 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baylen Jaxs (Post 1778361)
...He got braver and started buck kicking. Last straw was when he came 10 foot from me acting like he wanted to charge. I got out not because I was afraid, but because I had nothing to get after him with but a nylon lead rope that probably would have done nothing...

You can use anything you have with you. If you only have a halter or even a bucket (feeding time), use it. Swing it at them and if needed, throw it at them. Just show them you mean business. A lead rope can work too. Swing it in a circle. Most of ours have a knot at the end. Mainly to keep it from completely slipping thru the hand if they pull away but also it can give an added pop to them when swinging at them.

When working with a horse, I keep a cue/carrot/handy stick close by. If I didn't have a single thing with me, I would wave my arms and stomp like a crazy monkey while screaming at the horse. It might look and feel stupid but it usually catches the horse off guard and they back off. Show them that if they want to act crazy, you can be more crazy than them.
Posted via Mobile Device

Baylen Jaxs 12-01-2012 12:08 AM

Went to the tack store and bought a little higher then my chest lunge whip with about a almost five foot rope hanging off of it. Went to round penning him tonight, now that I had something to defend myself with and get after he thought not to mess with me.

He surly did try buck kicking and kicking out, backing up with his butt, and charged me twice. He got more then a couple slaps to the butt and a slap to the neck a couple times when charging. Needless to say, he was licking and chewing by the time we were done and he was being ever so nice. So lets hope all kinks are worked out lol. He is left in the round pen for now, I'm still not going to let him out till I can trust him enough not to go all haywire on me again. He's got hay and water so he's okay for now.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:54 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0