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TB's in the Dressage Ring

8K views 52 replies 19 participants last post by  blue eyed pony 
#1 ·
Someone said to me recently that TB's have no place in the dressage ring.

Obviously I own a TB...

I am of the opinion that any horse can compete at the low levels and it takes a certain amount of athletic ability and drive to compete the upper levels.

Yes Warmbloods are dominant for sure, but Thoroughbreds, IMO, also do well.

What's your opinion?:D
 
#2 ·
Ever paid attention to eventing? Many top eventing horses are OTTBs and they do very well with dressage. Dressage is a discipline based on the natural movement of the horse. Any breed can do it and even do it well. Heck, my little 15 hand Quarter Horse does dressage ;]
 
#4 ·
I would love to event with my TB, but he'll probably do no jumping in his life. We're sticking to dressage. While Warmbloods are dominant in the dressage ring, that doesn't give anybody the right to say that Thoroughbreds don't have any place being there. That's incredibly arrogant and rude. You don't see me going around saying "your bigshot WB has no business being there". Any decently-conformed horse has the potential to do well at least in low levels. Just because they can't make it in upper levels doesn't mean they don't belong in the ring at all.

I hate arrogant people like that.
 
#5 ·
Thoroughbreds can certainly hold their own in the Dressage arena. The difference between TB's and WB's however, is that you're more likely to find a WB that will be successful in the sport, than a TB.
I am devastated that I never had the opportunity to compete my last TB, he was ready for a prelim start before his hocks went, and people who had seen him in training offered double figures for him and asked what type of WB he was.

I've got two WB's now, but see a lot of TB's out there doing well too. Its just when you get to the higher levels, that the TB's start coming unstuck with racing injuries and often their brains can hack the higher level work.
 
#6 ·
#9 ·
#8 ·
A lot of people say that only WB's have a place in the Dressage arena.

The problem IMO is when you compare two different breeds of horses and expect them to go the exact same way. An Arabian and a TB and a WB and whatever else all love differently and their movements should be judged independently, not in comparison to other horses. Just my $0.02 as a non judge and non competitor!

I hear the same stuff about my Arab. PFFT to them I say! They can keep their 40 cent ribbon.
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#10 ·
Thank you everyone!
I am not discouraged...more shocked that this person even said that. I felt it to be very closed minded.

What a great story about Keen xx!! I plan to check out the rest of the links but must head off to work.

It's nice to have such an open minded diverse group here! :)
 
#11 ·
I am not discouraged...more shocked that this person even said that.
I was told by the trainer that both my horses are useless and never will be able to compete (even at the low levels). Yet, I shown Training level with my qh last year (this year I was off riding because of some health limitations, so didn't make it to the shows). :D

Best luck in a dressage arena with your TB, and don't forget to share pics as you go!
 
#15 ·
Most horses can do low level dressage - once you get up to psg/gp then the wbs have it, but because of their paces and the ability to collect and extend. Tbs aren't as flashy, and I've found too intelligent to make high level dressage horses - they get bored endlessly repeating the same movements. Hence why tbs or tb crosses dominate eventing. Plus, certainly here, most tbs haven't Ben been bred to race, let alone seen a track, so the racing injuries thing isn't as big a deal here - you don't see all that many ottbs!
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#16 ·
I've found too intelligent to make high level dressage horses - they get bored endlessly repeating the same movements.
I strongly disagree with that entire statement. Dressage is mentally challenging for the horse, ESPECIALLY the higher up you go. It should never be repetitive movement. A statement like the one above causes me to be skeptical about your understanding of dressage.

The Thoroughbred brain is PERFECT for dressage, even more so as you progress up the levels. I've found they love the mental challenge. Good dressage is something the TB mentality should excel at.

At the lowest levels, it takes a really smart rider to keep the TB brain engaged and focused, which is why TB's aren't (usually) very well suited for the adult ammy. You can get away with faking dressage on a warmblood if they're flashy enough, but with a TB... you have to ride with your mind, not just go through the motions.

This freestyle was pretty impressive:
 
#18 ·
Now now, no need to accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about because I disagree. I have in my experience found tbs in general (not all but most) to get flustered and frustrated easier than wbs. In dressage, where yes I would argue repetition is very important (not of whole tests, but if individual movements and transitions) in the search for perfection, I haven't found them to be great. I agree dressage is a mental challenge, but I find tbs don't cope with it. They get flustered and frustrated and can't hack the repetition. This is my opinion from my personal experience, so please don't insult me because my opinion differs from yours.
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#19 ·
Now now, no need to accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about because I disagree. I have in my experience found tbs in general (not all but most) to get flustered and frustrated easier than wbs. In dressage, where yes I would argue repetition is very important (not of whole tests, but if individual movements and transitions) in the search for perfection, I haven't found them to be great. I agree dressage is a mental challenge, but I find tbs don't cope with it. They get flustered and frustrated and can't hack the repetition. This is my opinion from my personal experience, so please don't insult me because my opinion differs from yours.
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I'm not insulting you, I'm saying that your concept of dressage is not correct.

Yes, TB's are more apt to get flustered/frustrated IF the dressage training is not correct. I have never, not once, seen a TB become anything but more relaxed, more attentive, and more supple under a good dressage rider. In fact, I'd say it's the best training for a hot horse with an intelligent mind (if ridden correctly).
 
#23 ·
Could someone please explain what a "Warmblood" is? I was under the impression that there where 3 types of horses, the "hot" which would be Arabians, Tb. The "Cold-blooded" Which was the draft-type. Then the Warm-blooded" which was basically anything in between like Quarter Horse, American Saddlebred, Tennessee Walker, Hanoverian etc.

So when you say "Warm-blood" what breed of horse are you talking about? Because technically speaking Quarter horses etc. should be considered a "Warmblood".
 
#25 ·
A tangent I guess.

Whatwas the predominant breed of choice before the current trend of WB's built for collection?

Personally I find the problem lies with people expecting a <blank> to move like a WB. Blank is whatever breed :) shouldn't the movements be judged with the horse in mind and not against what another horse can do?
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#26 ·
Emilyjoy, a "warmblood" is generally accepted to mean particular breeds of horses, many of which were specific to certain areas (many of which were in Europe). They were developed to fit a certain type wanted for specific jobs. Many were heavier types meant to be classy coach horses. They were heavier bodied and had nice movement. Others were a lighter and finer type more geared toward the carriage trade. Over the years, they developed distinct "types".

However, when coaches and carriages went out of style, with the entry of motorized cars, the warmblood was in danger of dying out of existence. What saved them was horse sport. These horses found a home in the competitive ring and the race was on to develop them for this purpose. As a result, there was a change in what they were looking for in "type". The lines between the different breeds started to become fuzzier as they started changing.

In today's world, it is quite difficult to tell one breed from another. But, at least they have a distinctive hot brand, usually found on the haunch, that gives you a clue.

Here are a few examples of these breeds. Again, the name of the breed usually tells where the particular "type" was developed.

Hannoverian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanovarian_(horse)


Trakehner

Trakehner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oldenburg

Oldenburg horse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Enough of the German provences, let's see some national warmbloods....

Swedish Warmblood

Swedish Warmblood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Belgian Warmblood

Belgian Warmblood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See? This is just a minor sampling of the different warmblood breeds.
 
#29 ·
Also, having re-read what I've actually typed I have an apology to make (I know, suck it up, Minstrel) - I've made it sound like I think dressage horses are stupid, or less intelligent or whatever. I honestly didn't mean that at all and I apologise, I meant that I've found TBs usually to be too smart for their own good, and that they are much more difficult to settle down to dressage in the higher levels because they do over think, get easily flustered and often can't take the mental pressure. This was my point, not that dressage horses should be stupid!!! I'm sorry, next time I will try to think through what I'm typing better!!!
 
#30 ·
Not to mention that quite a few of today's modern warmbloods out doing the upper levels can be hotter or as hot as your race horses. I don't think "TBs are more easily flustered" is the reason many don't get past medium. I think it is physical. Most aren't built for that collection. Some are. And some who have the ability may or may not be owned by riders of the same ability. See, lots of variables. In any case, some of the warmbloods are miles beyond what your average ammie rider can handle in terms of how sharp they are.
 
#31 ·
Allison Finch- Thanks for the explanation! So there are two types of warmbloods? The type of warmblood like the middle class (Regular horses such as Quarter horses), and the name "plastered" on a group of horses? Correct?
 
#33 ·
I didn't quite understand your question... what do you mean "Like the middle class"?

I have heard of people calling mutt crosses "American Warmbloods", and supposedly there's a registry for it. To me, it's just a gimmick to sell the horse. People go ga-ga over the word warmblood and the price immediately shoots up by 10k. They call QH/TB an Appendix QH in the western world... but put dressage tack on it, and suddenly it's an American Warmblood. Ha.

Seriously though, I think the use of the term Warmblood (at least as far as this thread goes) means the breeds listed by Allison Finch. I didn't see anything refering to Quarter Horses (Did I miss it?).
 
#35 ·
not sure if im right or wrong, but i dont think an appendix can be registered as an AW. please correct me if im wrong, ive never heard of that happening !

mostly draft horse Xs get registered as AWs in my experience. their standards are very low imo.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Let me ask it this way. If "Quarter horses Tennessee Walkers etc." are not "hotblooded" (Arabians, Thoroughbreds) and if they are not considered "coldblooded" ( Percherons/ draft type) Then what are they classed as? Just curious. I do realize there are horses with the title Warmblood "Dutch Warmblood" "Swedish Warmblood" "Belgian Warmblood" , but just curious as to why Quarter horses etc. are not considered Warmblooded...As that's the class I would put them in.

Here is a link that causes confusion to what you are saying, they say that the Quarter horse is a warmblood.

Warmbloods Horse Breeds Information

And to make a "Warmblood" a person should be able to cross a "coldblood" to a "hotblood" to make a "warmblood" ???????
 
#38 · (Edited)
All horses are warmblooded mammals. A warmblood as a breed type is defined as Allison has explained it.
A coldblood and a hotblood crossed together will make a crossbred horse.
A quarter horse is part of the stock breed type, not the warmblood breed type.

ETA just because Joe Smith made a website with an official sounding title, does not make the information true. For reading about horse breeding, breed types and origins of these horse breeds, your local library will usually have great books available on these topics.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Hmmmm I haven't bothered reading all the posts, but I was of the belief and had been taught that the whole hot, warm and cold blood label was based on temperment......for example:

Arabs, TB's : hot blood
TB x Clyde or Shire x TB : warmblood
Shire, Clydesdale etc : cold blood

Warmbloods (not all of them) but most are essentially a mix between the two.....cold and hot......essentially a cross breed......
 
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#40 ·
Hmmmm I haven't bothered reading all the posts, but I was of the belief and had been taught that the whole hot, warm and cold blood label was based on temperment......for example:

Arabs, TB's : hot blood
TB x Clyde or Holsteiner x TB : warmblood
Shire, Clydesdale etc : cold blood

Warmbloods are essentially a mix between the two.....cold and hot......essentially a cross breed......
Horses don't work like water. You cant mix hot and cold and get warm.
Coldblood is a breed type
Hot blood is a breed type
Warmblood is a breed type
Stock is a breed type
Gaited is a breed type
Etc..
Crossing any of these breed types with another makes a crossbred horse. A TB clyde is NOT a WB, it is a crossbreed.
 
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#44 ·
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