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ilovemyhorsies 09-13-2008 07:01 AM

my bulldog...shes so naughty and i'm really angry with her
 
well i have a bulldog puppy...

i'm really concerned about her behaviour towards them...she leaps at their faces and also leaps to grab any thing hanging down by their side....this may be a foot or a hanging girth...regardless she will leap to get it.

the thing i am most worried about is the fact that she a) jumps to latch onto my horses/ponies nose, b) does not respond to BAAAAA! and... c) does not respond to a slap on the face, body or a slap with the whip.

i always use the word BAAAA! in a loud and aggressive/angry/scolding tone but this does not work which makes me resort (after much scolding) to physical punishments (as stated above).

it seems the only thing that keeps her away from one horse (my clyde) is stamping hooves....i've also seen her try, regardless of my clydes obvious signs (ears flat back, teeth out, nose pushed forward and massive stamps..she brings her foot up high and stamps it down..hard..), to bite her face.

my ponies don't often use these signs...on occasion they will bare their teeth or put their ears flat back but will never stamp. this is why i'm so worried. i do not want my horses to become nervous wrecks because my puppy has mauled them...

i definately can't get rid of her (milly) and scolding/phsical punishments dont work so what should i do? i try to keep her locked up but sometimes she escapes her yard...due to the gate being latched wrong or accidentally left open, or is let out. if either of these things happen she knows where to find me and runs straight there...

sorry if i confused anyone.....my words are confusing me slightly!

help appreciated!

Moxie 09-13-2008 09:19 AM

How old is the puppy?


I'm lucky to have Tilly, she's a puppy, but she listens well. When I have to scold her, usually a NO! works fine, but if I see that she is doing something wrong, like has one of my son's toy's in her mouth, I'll go up grab the back of her neck with my thumb and index finger, grip slightly, enough to let her know that I'm there, then I'll shake and say NO! Mind you, it's not hurting her, I know she's endured much worse from my other dogs.

Another thing, if your dog is old enough, try using a shock collar. Yes, people's views on this method of training is sorted, I happen to be all for them. We have two for our two larger dogs, and when they are wearing them, they know it, they act like they actually know something. They are obeying my commands, listening better, and showing more manners.

You can also try to 'claim' your horses from Milly. Tilly likes to jump up and grab the jowls and ears of my yellow lab, she'll get on them, latch on, and shake. It's painful to the other dog, so we had to 'claim' him from Tilly. When you see that Milly is terrorizing your horses, go out and intervene by putting yourself in between Milly and the horse, and keep that position until Milly backs down (walks away, or lays down). You might have to maneuver around because Milly might run to different horses and so on, but I think you get the idea.

ETA: You can also try pinning her down on her back to assert your dominance. Let her know who's boss. We do that with Tilly every now and again, just to let her know that we're boss, we're the leaders of the pack. Pin her down, and don't let her get up until YOU are ready. If she gets up, and you didn't want her to, pin her down again.

Good luck! Keep us posted.

ilovemyhorsies 09-13-2008 10:58 PM

thanks for the advice moxie :)

milly is about 9 months (she was born late december last year) and has been in the family since she was 8 weeks old.

i've had no trouble with my cockerspaniel (not now or when she was a puppy). my dad and step-mum bought meg in '03 when she was 6 weeks old and shes now 5 years old. she is docile and respectful...completely the opposite to milly!

apart from jumping at the horses milly sits on meg (she has even sat on me a few times), pushes through your legs...even if they are closed, runs under your feet and in front of you etc.

she chases the little chicks....so far no fatalities or injurys but i still don;t want anything to happen to them. its the same game with the horses...no amount of BAAAA! or NO! or smacks (generally a last resort) will work..

she also chases people...she doesnt exactly try to hurt them....she just thinks its a game and if people run from her...well its more fun i guess...i don't want this to turn into more than a game..i don't even want her to do it! more than once shes scared me or my brother....once we even ran up a ladder to escape her...sometimes if she really wound up she gets to biting...i definately do not want me or my brother bitten by her...or anyone in general for that matter!

if you put aside all the naughty things she is a very loving little (well big...shes so heavy!) dog...she loves cuddles and pats and is so happy when she sees her 'family'

ilovemyhorsies 09-13-2008 11:30 PM

bulldogs were originally bred to fight bulls. they were trained to latch onto the bulls nose and bring him down....they have a lock jaw mechanism which works in such a way (teamed with their urge to serve their master and be loyal to him) that even if the bull ripped out the dogs guts (sorry for being so graphic....) it would still hold on and eventually bring the bull to the ground.

this is what i think milly is trying to do....it must be a far back instinct and she is reacting to it.

i do have cows (dad breeds scottish highlands..) on the property but she isnt allowed near them or the newborn babies.

milly never used to jump for the horses faces...in fact heres a few pics of her being friendly with them! (the one with the bay is her first look....see how scared she is? i wish she was like that now)


http://www.horseforum.com/userpix/33...83c73789_1.jpg
http://www.horseforum.com/userpix/33...91e45185_1.jpg

i don't have any of her with mally bacause if i left her alone next to mally even for just a few moments to take the photo mally would probably crush her.

i know this is mean but part of me wishes that amber or vince would sink their teeth into milly or give her a swift kick on the bum...just enough to teach her!

any wya i better go...i'm off to have a ride on amber :)

Moxie 09-14-2008 09:47 AM

It sounds like Milly needs an attitude adjustment, and you guys being her ‘pack leaders’ need to give it to her, and fast. She’s not respecting your BAAAAAA’S and NO’S or even smack because she doesn’t respect you guys as her leaders. You guys need to make with the dominance training asap.

That is one thing we have done with Tilly first and foremost. I have found with the bully breed’s it’s important to do so. Every once in a while I will roll Tilly on her back and just keep her there until I am ready for her to get up. She just lay’s there and licks the air, fiddles with her paw, or just looks at me. Tilly respects our NO’s and she knows what the small shake on the back of the neck means.

I would say that the running and chasing of people and of other animals is very bad behavior. She is only learning that it’s fun to chase things, it’s even more fun to catch them. Also, she’s learning that people/animals are afraid of her and that in the future, if she doesn’t want to do something, or wants something that you have, she’ll chase you for it. It’s simple logic really.

Milly looks attentive in those pictures, she looks like she is surveying the situation, just like her ancestors were bred to do. I’m sure she’s not doing it to be mean, or hatful, quite honestly she probably doesn’t even know why she goes after the horses or other animals. Don’t wait for the horses to teach her a lesson, that could be detrimental to Milly, and terrifying for the horses. I’d get on it myself, and spend some time asserting yourself, and teaching her some mannors.

I’m sure little Milly girl is a sweetheart, heck she looks like a doll in her pictures… She’s so darn cute!

Moxie 09-14-2008 10:13 AM

After you get Milly in check, you could get her one of these:


http://www.horseforum.com/userpix/40...ngaction_1.jpg


A springpole. My cousin has one for his pitt, and he absolutely loves it! He'll play on it all day, even shred the rope to bits playing with it. Just be sure that it's a treat, or play time and not foreseen as a training method.

I can see the 'lock jaw' trait in Tilly. She'll already latch onto her toys and put up a bit of a fight when we're playing tug-a-war. Which reminds me, when you and Milly play tug-a-war, who usually wins? Is SHE the one to walk away with the toy, or is it you?

ilovemyhorsies 09-15-2008 12:26 AM

with milly we don't play tug-o-war....our vet and her breeder told us that doing so can damage their jaws...not saying its wrong to do so but this is what we've been told and advised.

thank you for all your help moxie :) i'll keep posting and let you know if theres a change in her behaviour due to your help :)

i absolutely love tilly..i think she is such a cute puppy! i voted for her :wink:

milly can be very quiet and is very responsive during these times but when she gets over excited she seems to shut everyone out...

1 last thing before i get back to my book :)

i can't wait for the weather to change! its 15 days into spring but today you wouldn't know! theres been extreme gale force type winds, light hail and its been bucketing down with rain!

ilovemyhorsies 09-17-2008 05:22 AM

i'm so angry with milly right now!

well first she was let out and, of course, found me up with the horses. i was riding vince bareback around the big paddock and got off to do that defending thing that you suggested moxie....sort of worked but she wouldnt back off, kept pushing me in. she did the little bite the air thing she does when she wants to chew/bite something but cant have it...

i smacked her bum and chased her away, down to the big log (300 m), she lost interest so i vauted back on vince and rode him around a bit. then milly comes up from behind and came to vinces head, lept up i told her baaaa! from up on vince, this seemed to work better than on ground...anyway whenever she got closer than a metre i yelled BAAA!! this wworked....a little. anyway i finished my little bareback/no bridle ride. after i went inside to grab something...milly wasnt following....

after i got what i wanted i went outside and milly was terrorising my little chicks (their still babies...well teens really). i ran at her yelled BAAAA! NOOOO! she did her air bite and i said NO! again. then i decided to lock her in the chicks cage. it worked...she couldnt chase the chookies or bite the horses. i continued up to ambers paddock and put her bridle on (i went on a real bareback..not a potter), vaulted and w/t/c around the big paddock. amber went great...had some lovely canters and we went and saw the new calves. when i got back amber was a little sweaty so i took her back to her paddock and out into the orchard. i let milly out (after picking up the chooks) and she started circling amber. i went BAAAA! and NO! then let amber as close as i could to the chook shed so i could let the chooks back into their cage. when i started fiddling with the closer thing milly crept up behind amber and tried to bite her hock. amber gave her a swift kick in the jaw.

now i'm not being mean but i feel so glad that she got kicked...i'm so angry at her. shes got a tender jaw but ambers having trouble walking....her hindleg is a bit sore. thats put her out for a few days or maybe more....i'm so worried about her.

checked milly over...wouldnt let me go near her (i think i scared her) but finally caught her...no lost teeth but her jaw is sore

hopefully this has taught her....stupid little [insert naughty word here]

macalicious 09-20-2008 03:29 PM

You should make a shaker can and use it.
Just get a soda can (empty) and put a few pennies and dimes in it, then duct take the top.
Whenever she gets close, shake it at her (make sure your horses aren't scared of it first! :lol: ) and say 'BACK' or whatever command you want to put to it. Try it on other things besides the horses that you don't want her to touch, or just shake it to 'correct' her when she's misbehaving. It works really really well on some dogs, others don't mind it at all, but it's worth a try! Cheap and easy. =]

Gingerrrrr 09-20-2008 03:34 PM

when she does something you dont like take a spray bottle and fill it up with water and spray her with it.


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