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kayhmk 12-11-2012 07:33 PM

Sean Patrick vs. Clinton Anderson? (books)
 
Hi all,

I'm in a bit of dilemma whether I should get Clinton Anderson's Downunder Horsemanship or Sean Patrick's The Modern Horseman's Countdown to Broke as our new training guide. That is to say, I'd like to have something against which to check our progress and aid me when we run into a slump. I do have a trainer who visits every once in a while and plan on continuing with my eclectic mix of training tools, so the book would be only for extra help and a confidence boost.

The Countdown seems interesting in a way it's ordered in small steps and covers a lot of ground. The "negative" would be that I'm not actually familiar with Patrick's methods and style. Also, don't have a roundpen.

Downunder on the other hand seems logical and familiar to me. The "negative" in this case would be that I don't know how much into detail the book goes (f.ex. would it tell me what to do when my horse won't turn in lungeing for respect?) and that I'm not too fond of the stick (having enough trouble with only the rope in my hands :D).

Which would you recommend getting (first)? Looking for any views which is better or how useful these have been to you.
____________________

Background for those interested:
I've started riding 17 years ago and have been interested in training (in a bigger scale) for about 13 years. I've had a few years off especially from training and my confidence has suffered. So, like any sensible person would, I bought a difficult 5 year old. :) She has gone through horse-human basics (= all the way to riding every gait) but I've made pretty much a re-start with her these past months. Our biggest problem at the moment (in my opinion) is getting my horse's attention and keeping it more than a second at a time.

A few examples of stuff I've used and studied before: roundpenning, Parelli, join-up, Leslie Desmond, Karl Ferdinand Hempfling, Piet Nibbelink, Chris Cox, Bob Avila, classical dressage training.

My aim is to have a nice, soft and SAFE partner for everyday petting and (western) shows.

Thunderspark 12-12-2012 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayhmk (Post 1794829)
Hi all,

I'm in a bit of dilemma whether I should get Clinton Anderson's Downunder Horsemanship or Sean Patrick's The Modern Horseman's Countdown to Broke as our new training guide. That is to say, I'd like to have something against which to check our progress and aid me when we run into a slump. I do have a trainer who visits every once in a while and plan on continuing with my eclectic mix of training tools, so the book would be only for extra help and a confidence boost.

The Countdown seems interesting in a way it's ordered in small steps and covers a lot of ground. The "negative" would be that I'm not actually familiar with Patrick's methods and style. Also, don't have a roundpen.

Downunder on the other hand seems logical and familiar to me. The "negative" in this case would be that I don't know how much into detail the book goes (f.ex. would it tell me what to do when my horse won't turn in lungeing for respect?) and that I'm not too fond of the stick (having enough trouble with only the rope in my hands :D).

Which would you recommend getting (first)? Looking for any views which is better or how useful these have been to you.
____________________

Background for those interested:
I've started riding 17 years ago and have been interested in training (in a bigger scale) for about 13 years. I've had a few years off especially from training and my confidence has suffered. So, like any sensible person would, I bought a difficult 5 year old. :) She has gone through horse-human basics (= all the way to riding every gait) but I've made pretty much a re-start with her these past months. Our biggest problem at the moment (in my opinion) is getting my horse's attention and keeping it more than a second at a time.

A few examples of stuff I've used and studied before: roundpenning, Parelli, join-up, Leslie Desmond, Karl Ferdinand Hempfling, Piet Nibbelink, Chris Cox, Bob Avila, classical dressage training.

My aim is to have a nice, soft and SAFE partner for everyday petting and (western) shows.

I'm not too sure who Sean Patrick is but I do follow Clinton Anderson's methods. I do have DVDs of his but not the books, the DVDs are a great training tool and shows you how to handle different situations.
Maybe someone else here would have a better input then me....

Lwhisperer 12-12-2012 12:33 AM

I also use Clinton Anderson's methods. They just seem to make good sense to me, and he's very good at explaining and showing his methods in an easy to understand way.

I don't know anything about Sean Patrick. So I would vote Clinton Anderson, but it's not a very well educated vote.

tinyliny 12-12-2012 01:06 AM

I really liked this book. Great diagrams and very simple , clear explanations.
I don't need to pay for Clinton Anderson's overactive ego.

BARNES & NOBLE | Problem Solving Volume 1: Preventing and Solving Common Horse Problems by Marty Marten | Paperback

Thunderspark 12-12-2012 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinyliny (Post 1795411)
I really liked this book. Great diagrams and very simple , clear explanations.
I don't need to pay for Clinton Anderson's overactive ego.

BARNES & NOBLE | Problem Solving Volume 1: Preventing and Solving Common Horse Problems by Marty Marten | Paperback

LOL whoa!! was that a dig at Clinton Anderson?

Lwhisperer 12-12-2012 01:18 AM

That's why you use borrowed/used Clinton Anderson equipment, and don't pay his high prices. ;) I haven't bought anything of his, only borrowed his dvds from a friend, borrowed his books from the local library, and purchased "handy stick" and lead rope equivalents (exactly the same product, bu without the name) through a different company. I agree that he seems rather full of himself, but his methods do work. *shrug* Just my opinion. But I do agree there's no need to pay his prices.

tinyliny 12-12-2012 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderspark (Post 1795421)
LOL whoa!! was that a dig at Clinton Anderson?

'

Ya think? Yep, I had to put in a wee dig at him. I keep thinking, "everyone says he is like a God, he's so good, maybe I should watch some of his videos". so, I go to his website and watch one, but the prologue with flashing lights and camera angles and music that makes him out to be a super hero really turns me off. And the ads, and the way he swaggers up like he's doing you a real favor to be there and , . . I dunno. He probably has a good message, it's just me personally I don't care for his approach. He has what I call a very antagonistic or oppositional mental position; that training horses is like doing battle with them or something.

kayhmk 12-12-2012 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinyliny (Post 1795456)
Ya think? Yep, I had to put in a wee dig at him. I keep thinking, "everyone says he is like a God, he's so good, maybe I should watch some of his videos". so, I go to his website and watch one, but the prologue with flashing lights and camera angles and music that makes him out to be a super hero really turns me off. And the ads, and the way he swaggers up like he's doing you a real favor to be there and , . . I dunno. He probably has a good message, it's just me personally I don't care for his approach. He has what I call a very antagonistic or oppositional mental position; that training horses is like doing battle with them or something.

^have to agree to some extent, but not only on CA -- he's probably not even the worst offender (don't know, haven't seen his "polished" videos).

Personally I've found that everybody (and I DO mean everybody!) in the horse training circles who have name quickly become more of a face of their concept. The Messiah of a money making machine. This also means that their methods get forced into these tiny, shiny little moulds with selling names. Like Parelli is totally shortlist-oriented. Whether this kills the effectiveness and usability of their methods... well, I don't know. It's just the way marketing works and it wouldn't work, if people didn't really respond to that sort of manipulation through subliminal and often overt tricks.

I like quiet, take-your-time horsemanship. I come from a culture where openness is not a mainstream value. These things don't sell, these things won't gather a following of enthusiastic customers. Thus, sadly, I've had to bite my tongue and make an effort to ignore all the American showmanship and try to find the substance deep down somewhere. If there is any. :D

On tinyliny's other post, I've read the Marten book and I own the vol 2. What I remember from the vol 1, I found/find his books a bit too problem-oriented for my purposes right now. Looking more for a "from A to D through B and C" type of thing ATM.

Thunderspark 12-12-2012 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinyliny (Post 1795456)
'

Ya think? Yep, I had to put in a wee dig at him. I keep thinking, "everyone says he is like a God, he's so good, maybe I should watch some of his videos". so, I go to his website and watch one, but the prologue with flashing lights and camera angles and music that makes him out to be a super hero really turns me off. And the ads, and the way he swaggers up like he's doing you a real favor to be there and , . . I dunno. He probably has a good message, it's just me personally I don't care for his approach. He has what I call a very antagonistic or oppositional mental position; that training horses is like doing battle with them or something.

I was a club member back when it first started in Feb. 2007, he was not like that then, not all the lights/music and he seemed more down to earth.....I quit the club a couple years ago because his monthly DVDs were having commercials in them which they didn't for years.......probably some promotional guy told him to do that so he did.....it took away from him wanting to help people to wanting to sell to people....I still like his methods though.....

Lwhisperer 12-12-2012 02:57 AM

I agree completely with Thunderspark. He came from a small start... And then for some reason (managers, etc.), he's become much more commercial. Which is why I refuse to financially support him. Doesn't make him a bad trainer, but I feel that his intentions aren't as wholesome as they used to be.


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