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mustbemonroe 01-03-2013 03:01 AM

Anyone with Iberian Warmbloods in Here?
 
Hello, all! I have a 3.5 y/o Iberian WB filly that I have had since she was born. Here dam is a 15.3 TB and her sire is a 16.1 Andalusian.

My question is, how long do these horses typically grow? Logic says she should at LEAST be 15.3, and that at 3.5 she should be pretty much done growing. Right now, she's about 14.2-14.3.

It's a bit disheartening to me since I am 5'9''-ish and look silly on a pony sized beast. I keep hoping for a late growth spurt but as time goes on it seems less likely. Anyone out there have experience with the growth patterns of these horses?

A few people I know (with different kinds of WBs) assure me she still has growing to do, but I think they are just saying it to be nice :?

RunSlideStop 01-03-2013 09:35 AM

Not sure but definitely interested, as I am looking into Iberian horses (including WBs) for my future stock.

Any idea how tall her parents are?
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~*~anebel~*~ 01-03-2013 10:32 AM

An "Iberian WB" is not a true WB. Therefore it will not show WB characteristics because it is an AndalusianxTB. Depending on the size of the parents I wouldn't expect a large horse. I ride a PRE who is all of 15hh, but who carries his 5'6" rider well.
Also please be prepared for a hot, sensitive horse. Again because the horse is not a WB it is not going to show typical WB traits. Baroque horses in general are especially sensitive and you absolutely cannot make mistakes or lose your temper with them as one repetition of anything can teach them for life. They are not as forgiving a young horse as a WB. Older, broke and well trained baroque horses make excellent amateur mounts, however.

Good luck with your AndalusianxTB!

ETA its unlikely that the sire is truly 16.1hh as well, either that or he is not truly an Andalusian and is himself also a cross, what is the name of the sire? Andalusians are typically no larger than about 15.3hh.
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RunSlideStop 01-03-2013 10:47 AM

Oops, missed the height of parents in OP.

Anebel - I am curious how you know this about baroque horses (their incredible sensitivity). Is it possibly just a trait you found in certain horses, or is this true across the whole spectrum? How do you know?

Also curious why an Andy/TB is not a warmblood. What is the definition of a warmblood, exactly? If people can cross Percherons with TBs and get warmbloods, what is the difference? Would an Andy/TB more appropriately be called a sporthorse? What is the reason?
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~*~anebel~*~ 01-03-2013 10:59 AM

Percheron TB is also not a Warmblood. A Warmblood is a specific breed type, not a fancy name for a cross. It's like arguing that labradoodle is a breed. If the mum is a lab and the dad is a poodle, it is not a purebred dog that is resulted. Same with horses. A cross is a cross, a warmblood is a warmblood. The two terms are not interchangeable.

It is known that these horses are ultra sensitive. It is a breed trait. It's partially really great when training them, however in the wrong hands they are easily ruined. A very willing to learn horse.
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RunSlideStop 01-03-2013 12:04 PM

Can you point me to where I can find info on the personality traits of these horses?

I would also argue that though a cross is a cross, it is still a breed - recognized or not, almost every horse is the result of a cross. Quarter Horses did not spring up out of the dirt - they are a now-recognized cross between TB, Arab, Spanish, etc. Yes, now they are "purebred," but a labradoodle bred to a labradoodle for 3 generations creates a "purebred labradoodle."

Now I will concede that a Perch/TB is not a purebred horse. However, I do not understand how it is not a warmblood. Hot + Cold = Warm? ;) Kidding, but I am serious about it being a warmblood - why wouldn't it be? Is there a definition I am missing?

As for Iberian Warmbloods - what makes it not a warmblood?

I am genuinely curious and I hope you realize I mean all of these questions with sincere curiosity and not animosity. :)

Sorry to hijack the thread :s
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~*~anebel~*~ 01-03-2013 12:28 PM

A warmblood is a breed type.

You cannot cross an arab and a TB and call it a stock horse. Does it have cow sense? Can it perform reining or cutting maneuvers well and easily? Etc..
Or how about lets cross a QH and a welsh and then it can be a draft horse.

You see? It doesn't work like that. A Hanoverian is a warmblood, a Dutch warmblood is a warmblood, a Trakhener is a warmblood. They are all breeds which fall into the warmblood breed type category. Like how Percherons and Shires, etc are drafts, QHs and paints are stock horses, etc..

Just because something is given a name does not make it a breed or part of an entirely different breed type. You can breed a labradoodle to a labradoodle, it still does not make the dog a legitimate purebred dog.

A Percheron is not a warmblood, a TB is not a warmblood, an Andalusian is not a warmblood. Crossing any or all of these horses will not produce a warmblood because none were warmbloods to start.

And about the breed traits, it is just a known thing, I couldn't tell you where I found it in a book or anything. My coach has worked with many, I've worked with a few and just in general from observation of these horses worldwide they are a very sensitive, willing type. Google maybe?

ETA Also, when crossing anything with a TB generally the accepted practice is to add "Anglo" before the other breed. Ie - Anglo Arabian indicates a TBxArab. So a Percheron TB could be an Anglo Percheron, but not a WB, and this horse (in OP) would be an Anglo Andalusian. Iberian Warmblood would indicate that an Iberian horse (like a PRE or Lusitano) was crossed with a warmblood (like a Hanoverian). As well even crossing an Iberian horse is highly controversial. Most stallions caught "outbreeding" or "crossbreeding" are struck from the registry they belong to.

jaydee 01-03-2013 01:55 PM

I'm confused with some of the info being given here.
The Iberian horse is classed as a warmblood and pre-dates the modern day warmbloods by many years - dating back to as far as 264BC. influenced by the Iberian blood
Even though we now dont recognise a cold blood x hot blood = warmblood the Iberian horses were actually a result of crossings with the oriental hot bloods (ancestors of the modern day arabian) and the heavier draft horses
The andalusian and the lusitano are 'parallel breeds and the Lusitano viewed as the purer of the two as it has less arabian blood hence the slightly more 'ram like' head
The modern day warmbloods such as the Hanoverian were all bred from the Iberian horses crossing them with heavy horses like the Percheron and Boulonnais and the lighter TB's to get a bigger but still powerful horse with elegance, speed and agility.
The lusitano is sensitive as far as being easily trained and responsive but should have a fairly docile disposition to deal with the demands of things like its use in bull fighting.
Crossed with TB you may get a taller horse if the mare was 16.2 plus but no guarantee
I didnt notice where you were from but if you want to register your horse you could contact the American Warmblood Society and discuss with them

RunSlideStop 01-03-2013 02:01 PM

I am wondering the same things as the above poster, as my research showed the same things ie Iberians = Warmbloods. Afterall, I would be so bold as to say a good majority of horses come from these Spanish/Iberian roots. There are TBas and Arabs yes, but what about the Andalusian and Lusitano that come from the Asian ancestry far enough back (unless I am totally wrong here), which all of the fancy Euro WBs also date back to in part, mostly through Spanish types.

There is an Iberian Warmblood registry, which in my eyes makes it more legitimate than the "Pinto Horse Assoc" or "Blue Eyed Horse Assoc" as it promotes the actual breed.

I am confused. Iberian horses have the WB type (stockier than today's leggy types like Holsteiners, Hanos, Traks, etc), but they possess the same type, general personality as far as I am aware, AND the exclusive stud books. ?
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~*~anebel~*~ 01-03-2013 02:40 PM

I'm half German and no one goes around telling me that I'm a nazi.

Iberian horses do not posses the same traits or types as modern warmbloods, which is why there is clearly a warmblood type AND an iberian/baroque/spanish type.
Yes, of course 200, 500 years ago the breed types were different. However, in MODERN breeding there are warmbloods and iberians as two seperate breed groups.

Having worked with iberian, baroque and modern warmblood types I can say for sure they do not posses the same characteristics. Each requires a different training process and ride. Which down to the individual horse is also different, but in general far more sensitivity and care is needed with the iberian breed types.


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