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Future barrel horse?

7K views 50 replies 15 participants last post by  Horseluver10 
#1 ·
Do you think he would be a good barrel horse. Also are there any training tips i can get, he is not broke. He is bred for speed the great grandson of go man go. i am not an AQHA member if you wanna look up his pedigree his number is AQHA # X0664994. He is 15.0hh, 1100lbs, 7yrs.
 

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#2 ·
-Ewe Necked
-Straighter Shoulder
-Longer Back
-Ok hip
-Low set Hocks
-Decent Pasterns

The scar on his leg looks like Scar Tissue that was never properly taken care of.

I think he will be fine to mess around with, he isn't going to make a super hard competitor. He doesn't have horrid conformation, just some things that won't make him that top notch barrel horse if that is what your looking for.
 
#3 ·
Well he is going to be my first barrel horse, so i am not looking for a champion horse, just something to get started on. I just dont want it to be a complete waste of time. His is the great grandson of go man go, and his is hot, he wants to move that is what i like best about him. My previous horse i trained with help from an expert for barrels knew that patten, but just did not want to run. Thanks for the comment!
 
#6 ·
I think he will be good for what you do. Make sure you find a bit that works for him is my number 1 tip today a bit that allows him to run his best.
I am assuming this is found through trial and error. I was planning on starting out with a simple o-ring snaffle, i was also told a running gag works good for barrel prospects after basic training is done. When i broke my first horse for barrels i used a sliding gag bit, because the trainer advised that it encouraged proper head set, and vertical/ horizontal flexion, but he said never ever use it when running at a show, he recommend using a ported shank bit. What is your opinion on that? I just inherited a ton of tack and bits from an uncle who won in reining, but is now retired, some of the bits he gave me i've never seen before and i really dont know what their for. Ill post some pic maybe you or someone can help me with that.
 
#7 ·
When I am training a prospect I keep them in the snaffle as long as possible, some horses move out of it faster while others stay in it longer just depends on the horse. I am not a big gag person.....to me the less gag the better BUT that is JMO and what works for our program and personal preference.

The next step up bit is usually a light shanked bit with NO port. I the next step for me is one of the following: Easy 5, Jr. Cowhorse, Tender Touch, Sherry Cervi. I like to try and keep the bit as light as possible without doing more harm then good (using a light bit on a obviously pushy horse is just going to create a tug-of-war. which defeats the purpose of using it).
 
#8 · (Edited)
Also do you recommend using a curb chain? and when leading a very green and hot horse do you recommend using a stud chain?

So i posted two shank bits with ports that i got but dont know why i would use them, and the running gag that i've used but dont like, and a tom thumb that i've never used before and dont know why you would use it?

Also i was thinking about using a twisted wire snaffle, ive never used one on my horse, but i rode a horse that was riding in it and i liked it.
 

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#9 ·
I always use a chin strap....most of the time chain but I have recently made some braided poly rope ones for my everday light bits and keep the chain ones for my running bridles. Some I have adjusted tighter while others are super loose, just depends on the horse and how they are running.

For the bits you posted....I wouldn't really use any of them. I am not a fan of the solid shank ported bit because they don't have much give of the shanks individually. I would NEVER use a TT and will NEVER have one in our tackroom. And I would not use the combination bit....THAT one is pretty severe and I wouldn't use it. So really I wouldn't use any of the bits you posted.

A twisted wire depends a lot on YOUR hands....I wouldn't recommend you use one of your heavy handed. Also depends on the horse....we start all our horses in a smooth mouth snaffle and I eventually go to the medium twisted with a dog bone. BUT that is just the preferred bit I like after they have the initial 30 days of riding on them. From there they stay in that snaffle till they are well into their training on the pattern....so a good 2 1/2yrs +.

I don't lead any of my horse in a stud chain......all my horses walk beside me calmly. I use knotted rope halters, and would do lots of ground work to establish SPACE and RESPECT on the lead. I don't tolerate a horse that leads me, or runs me over, ect. They get a serious Comin to Jesus meeting and realize when I want them behind me I MEAN IT....So do some ground work and get the horses respect 100%
 
#10 ·
No, no and no.

No twisted wire snaffle. No tom thumb. No major curb with huge shanks. This horse needs SLOW work in the gentlest bit you can find.

The way that your going, your going to ruin this horse before he reaches 60 days.

Find a trainer and get help training this horse.
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#11 ·
No, no and no.

No twisted wire snaffle. No tom thumb. No major curb with huge shanks. This horse needs SLOW work in the gentlest bit you can find.

The way that your going, your going to ruin this horse before he reaches 60 days.

Find a trainer and get help training this horse.
I always use a o-ring snaffle on a green horse no matter what, i was talking about after he was trained. I posted those pics because i inherited these bits and i dont know what there for, i was not planning on using them. However, one bit that i love, is the sweet water bit FOR A BROKE HORSE mind you. I was given one for my appy by a race horse trainer with 20+ track years and it worked wonders. This trainer also said he would help, being that he has tons of experience with hot horses. I also have a cousin that is big into the horse industry who gives me pointers. I also have successful basic trained (walk-trot-lope-side pass-roll overs-back- sliding stops) three 3-4 years old who have turned out to be great horses, they were not mine i did it for friends who did not have time. I also use Pat Parelli techniques, with some Clinton Anderson mixed in.
 
#13 ·
Why do you stay away from gag bits? Gags get an awful rep because of the picture they paint with the name but can actually be mild. They just place pressure in different places than say a solid shank bit or a snaffle.

Anyway back to the OP.

I would not get this colt with the experience you say you have. A lot of people go through several colts before they get it right, and getting started in a new sport with a green horse is not only going to take you a lot of time and effort until he is ready to run a long time from now. We're talking solid foundation which depending on this horse could take 60 days or it could take 120 days of riding, and even then you don't know if this colt is going to have the mind to stay with this activity and you won't know what a finished horse feels like, so you won't always catch those little things that colts do when first started on the pattern. Then even if he does take to it well, we're talking another year of seasoning and hauling and getting him used to things. Months and months of slow work before adding speed, then when you add speed you have to work out those kinks as well on top of all the seasoning. It's a process, there's a reason any good barrel horse is going to get sold for a lot of money.

I would recommend passing on this one and finding something at least started correctly loping the pattern, if not finished and broke which would be ideal.
 
#14 ·
Thank you sorrel horse for the comment! It was an eye opener, and i really appreciate it. I have every intention of going slow and correct, this horse is 7yrs old and that is alot of wasted time it is almost a sin, but i am not a competitive type of person and i am not going to just run the patten until i get it right(which would never happen), i do have some sense, and i am not stubborn. I have already bought this horse, and unfortunately he is all i had money for because i sold my last horse to a horse rescue for a adopted Russian girl who's horse just had a heart attack and is now retired, for a major discount. I know that does not change that fact of the matter, but i am not in a hurry to start running barrels, and i now think i am going to attend a barrel practice every Wednesday that is local to get help from experienced barrel racers, get pointers and maybe get a feel for what a trained barrel horse is like. I am going to try to do this a proper and correct as possible , and that is the main reason i am asking for advice on this site.
 
#15 ·
Okay, it sounds like you have a lot of sense when it comes to this. I'm sure things will go fine so long as you take it slow. Sherry Cervi, Fallon Taylor, and Martha Josey have a lot of good training videos on youtube and then you can look up some of the reining trainers on there too that teach a lot of good stuff that are critical to a barrel horse's foundation and body control. Also, Downunder Horsemanship TV does a lot of good things about colts and finished horses and the groundwork involved.

Good luck!
 
#18 ·
I try to stay away from a gag bit when training horses i keep them in the lightest bit possible for as long as i can. Gag bits can be very harmful in the wrong hands.
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Actually it is more like the opposite of what you just said....gag bits give the horse time to respond before the bit takes hold. If you have a super light horse a bit with more gag is going to work better then a bit that has little to no gag. Because the less gag the quicker the bit engages and takes hold which is going to get a more instantanious reaction vs the gag.

Gags truely less severe most of the time.
 
#23 ·
To the OP:

It really sounds like you have the correct mindset about working with this horse. That's a great start! (Most people don't have a good mindset about these things.) It sounds like you realize it may take you 3 or 4 years to have a finished barrel racing product here.

I agree with barrelracinglvr that he doesn't have completely perfect conformation, but "he'll do". :wink: The only red flag I would have is that old injury he appears to have on his left hind leg. Have you had him evaluated by an equine vet? It would be a good idea to check to make sure he is 100% sound on that leg, before you invest time and money into any training.

It also would be a good idea to have him seen by an equine dentist. It's always a good idea to make sure he doesn't have a tooth or mouth issue, before you expect him to respond properly to a bit.

If he clears the vet check and the dentist, then first things first: Get your horse broke, broke, broke. I like to be able to do these things with my horse before starting them on the pattern:
--walk, trot, and lope on a loose rein and relaxed
--stops easily and softly from any gait
--back up freely
--sidepass, move shoulders, move hindquarters, and move ribcage
--arc and counter-arc
--simple and flying lead changes
--direct rein and neck rein
--master "perfect circles"

Basically, you want to be able to move any part of your horse's body, at any time, at any gait. Softness and control! And making perfect circles is crucial to barrel training. I love Dena Kirkpatrick's method, where she teaches her horses to make a perfect circle on their own, while she only has one (inside) hand on the reins. This makes the transition to a barrel turn easy. She's got a lot of great videos on YouTube, but I would highly suggest buying her DVDs.

Here's one of her videos to get you started.



When your horse is just plain BROKE in general, then you can start patterning him. Spend lots of time at the walk and trot and make sure he does the pattern perfectly. Depending on how broke you get him at the start, will make a difference on how fast you can advance through the pattern.

And you don't always have to do the cloverleaf, you can do other random drills that still work on the basic fundamentals of barrels, without souring your horse on the pattern itself.

I personally like to haul my horses to a lot of different shows doing a lot of different things to get them used to going places and to keep a level head on their shoulders. This summer, I'll be taking my 7-yr-old to local shows where we will be doing halter/showmanship classes, western pleasure, reining, trail, and speed/gaming events. We'll also work cattle and go on trail rides. I'll be taking my coming 2-yr-old along to most shows too, as I can start doing showmanship/halter with him, and also get him used to sights and sounds of shows.

As far as what bit to use, I personally like an O-ring smooth mouth snaffle to start with. And I keep them in that as long as they work fine in it. There's no rules that say you have to change the bit for barrel racing. Use the bit that works for your horse. Out of the ones you posted, I personally would not use any of those for barrel racing. I like bits where the shanks will swivel on the sides, because that typically works better for the direct reining that happens in barrel racing. I also prefer a broken mouthpiece, but that will vary on the horse. Some work better in a solid mouthpiece. Gag bits are great because they give your horse a "warning" before the pressure engages, but horses sometimes can become "dull" in a gag bit, so you have to be careful of that.

And you already said that you are, but it is VERY important that you work with a trainer when you are getting your horse broke, and when you are training him on barrels. It is really, really hard to fix bad habits that can be formed when you don't know what you are doing. There is absolutely NO shame in working with a trainer! I myself have been riding horses since I was 2 yrs old and barrel racing since I was 4 yrs old (I'm now 26), and I'm even going to be doing some barrel racing lessons this summer. You are never, never too old or "too experienced" to learn something from someone else!

Keep us updated on your progress with him!
 
#25 ·
Also what is opionin on "pockets" or the palce you pick to turn horse around the barrel. I was told it is differnt with every rider, and do you counterbend into a turn or do you pull the nose around, i always counterbend around a barrel, that is what i was taught anyway.
 
#41 ·
Every trainer is going to have a different opinion on pocket size, and every horse is going to have a slightly different turning style.

I like to start all my horses so that they stay an even 4 feet away from the barrel all the way around. When you eventually speed it up, the horse naturally sucks in closer to the barrel. It is much easier to get a horse to turn a barrel tighter, than to try to "fix" the horse to turn it wider.

When they get going better on the pattern is when you can start to tell what sort of turning style the horse will have. Some will stay an even distance around the barrel. Some will do better with a tad wider pocket, and leave the barrel close. Some will have an oval turn with a rollback style. So it just takes a good feel for your horse to figure out what is going to work best for that horse to get around the barrel the fastest.

Counterbending can be a useful tool when you are trying to prevent a horse from shouldering into the barrel (don't turn the barrel, but instead turn the opposite way on a counter bend), or if you are doing certain exercises to makes your turns more snappy. But in general, NO, I do not counter bend my horse around the barrel. What will cause you horse to shoulder in is if you grab their nose at the barrel and pull it outward away from the barrel to prevent them from turning. You don't want to do that because their shoulder will drop, they can no longer see the barrel because you took their head away, and they'll run it right over. Always, always, use your inside leg to push the horse away from the barrel if you need, and to also get a nice bend in your horse.

Watch that video again I posted earlier. Look at the beautiful bend she keeps in her horse while going around the barrel, with the nose tipped inward. THat's what you want.
 
#26 ·
Horse's nose should always be a little tipped into the barrel. I make the pocket bigger when I go in and finish tight, and about three feet away if I had to guess. When you go slow I tend to make things a little wider because when you get loping it'll tighten up.

Here is a video with a couple different riders on different levels of horses in a lesson at our barn. It's not quite a detailed explanation but you can see some fairly correct things here and corrections on the wrong things.



The greenest horse in here is one who is four and just barely started loping the pattern here, and that is the grey one. The black arab is broke well but just a low level racer. The other two both go and rodeo heavily and do extremely well.
 
#27 ·
I just watched that video again and I forgot that I cut out most of the talking parts so I'll reiterate a little more.

Approaching the barrel, I tap-tap my inside leg about halfway there. That just arcs their body, establishes the bend, gets them softening to the bridle. When I reach my rate point I'll melt down and sit deeper, remove my inside leg, go to one hand, let them set up then I'll bump my outside leg leaving it just to emphasize the turn. It gets to the point where that shoulder will lift and get that bend, then when you go around the barrel you'll be in a good position. Sometimes though I will either lope right past the barrel and stop at the fence, or stop at my rate point and counter arc away. The shoulder has to be picked up, and all of that will help and stop them anticipating the turn and plowing over a barrel like some will do. If my horse dives in a little too I will bump my outside rein and inside leg and circle the barrel again until they give me a good even circle, then stop, counter arc away, and lope off the other direction.

You can see the pockets in that video though.
 
#37 ·
They are sevre because they can be very painful too the horse in the wrong hands
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Any bit is severe in the wrong hands. And it depends on the horse, too. Some horses just work better in gag bits, my horse included. I use the Wonder smooth snaffle bit on him and he runs great in it.
 
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