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Freyannia 02-01-2013 07:32 AM

Dilute Draft Stallions in UK?
 
Looking for a nice dilute (pref double dilute) heavy stallion over 15.2... Anyone have any ideas? To put over my choco pally filly next year (her first covering). Must be heavyweight/draft. X
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faye 02-01-2013 08:02 AM

are you actualy breeding for anything other than a pretty colour?!

Freyannia 02-01-2013 09:20 AM

I am in a breeding program for the Sugarbush drafts. Because my filly has an F-SDHR dam and WB sire I need to have her covered by a draft to produce a sugarbush foal, a pretty colour would be a huge bonus :)
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faye 02-01-2013 09:39 AM

so your breeding a mutt essentialy. The sugarbush draft is not a breed.

Freyannia 02-01-2013 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faye (Post 1872814)
so your breeding a mutt essentialy. The sugarbush draft is not a breed.

I must say, that's rather rude. If you look up any dictionary for "purebred" you will get this;

adj
denoting a pure strain obtained through many generations
of controlled breeding for desirable traits

So in effect breeding selected horses together to produce the same characteristics every time...i.e breeding true.

It takes 5 generations of bred true horses to create a breed. In the States these horses are already purebred.

The Sugarbush Draft IS a fully fledged breed... It may be a new breed but it is IN FACT a breed.

Granted in the UK we only have 2 eligible breeding mares (my filly and her dam) and we will need to go through selective breeding to create the bred true youngstock exact as in the States. We are being very very selective about the matches we make and if the youngstock make the grade or not. This will be helped later on when I can import a stallion from the original bloodlines but I will not do that until I have quality stock of the exact type to pair him with.

I suggest that if you have something rude to say, you just don't say it. I don't mind constructive criticism, but being mean is just that.

jaydee 02-01-2013 11:49 AM

I think that Faye is being more blunt than rude
I cant see that these horses will ever be a recognised breed in the UK as all you are going to get is a cob or if you use some quality blood and use a bigger stallion then maybe a middle weight hunter/sport horse and there is no shortage of those in the UK - some amazing ones and some below average.
The problem with using a first cross draft stallion is that the offspring can go either way so maybe an Irish Draft would be a better choice

Freyannia 02-01-2013 12:00 PM

These horses will be more than just cobs or mid hunters. At first we have that possibility but I am we'll aware it may take me 10 years or more to get the breed correct to type and breeding true in the UK. My filly is 50% draft and could be considered a Maxi Cob or mid hunter as she is. I am looking at the heavy hunter category. I definitely see this breed being recognised in the UK. they recognise the Appaloosa's don't they? The Appaloosa breed is only 2-4 years older than the Sugarbush. I don't see recognition as a problem once the breed is properly established. I do see it taking many years though :D but I'm fine with that.

I am looking at an Irish Draught and a Clydesdale stallion for this filly. Both of which are being assessed ATM to determine if they would be an approved match to produce a G1 sugarbush foal. Them the foal will be assessed to see if it makes the grade :)

jaydee 02-01-2013 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freyannia (Post 1873007)
These horses will be more than just cobs or mid hunters. At first we have that possibility but I am we'll aware it may take me 10 years or more to get the breed correct to type and breeding true in the UK. My filly is 50% draft and could be considered a Maxi Cob or mid hunter as she is. I am looking at the heavy hunter category. I definitely see this breed being recognised in the UK. they recognise the Appaloosa's don't they? The Appaloosa breed is only 2-4 years older than the Sugarbush. I don't see recognition as a problem once the breed is properly established. I do see it taking many years though :D but I'm fine with that.

I am looking at an Irish Draught and a Clydesdale stallion for this filly. Both of which are being assessed ATM to determine if they would be an approved match to produce a G1 sugarbush foal. Them the foal will be assessed to see if it makes the grade :)

The US appaloosa society was founded in 1938 and the UK established its own society in 1976 - but this wasnt the start of the 'breed' - they have been around for centuries. The Sugarbush didnt emerge in the US until the 1950s
If you use a Clydesdale depending on what draft cross your mare is you are likely to end of with something that looks like a draft horse - that is not a valid description of a quality heavyweight hunter. There are pure ID's competing at top level in heavyweight hunter classes so you'd do best to consider that breed or maybe a suffolk punch which is more compact and has better riding horse type conformation
I've had 2 horses that were TB stallion x Cleveland Bay (both mares) and one looked like a show riding horse (15.2) and the other almost like a pure Cleveland bay (16.3)
I dont know if you ever go to any auctions but if you did you would see many horses much like what you want to produce - they are commonplace in the UK and have been for years

verona1016 02-01-2013 12:52 PM

The American Cream Draft was the first breed that popped to mind for me. Looks like they're actually champagne, not cream, though; not sure if that makes a difference to you :-) You're probably not likely to find one in your area, but could probably do shipped semen.

Freyannia 02-01-2013 12:56 PM

My appologies, I was thinking of the AQHA, dunno why I said Appaloosa... Baby brain! Lol blame it on the pregnancy. Thanks for correcting me :D the quarter horse registry was set up at the same time as the Sugarbush registry... Relatively speaking. Either way I am devoted to the breed :)

I had thought about a Suffolk Punch now that you mention it! Haven't found one I liked as much as the ID and Clydie though. I have LOTS of time to decide though.


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