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Toed Out Opinions

3K views 21 replies 8 participants last post by  OneFastHorse 
#1 ·
First I will start by saying this is Rain. 8yo TWH. We bought her Oct. of 2011. When we first bought her she was horrible toed out. Both her knees and pasturns touched. She was pasture sound but could not do any kind of work (even walk for ten minutes) on a lunge line. Now, she is currently overdue 2 weeks and has pulled a shoe. She has been 100% sound for a almost a year now. I am going to upload some pictures of her as is and see what you all have to say about what needs to be done and should be done. Farrier is coming on February 27th so I will post after pictures to. What I need to know is what pictures from what angles. Do you need a front, inside, outside, heel, and bottom side picture of each hoof?
 

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#4 ·
Do you, by chance, have a concrete sidewalk or paved road nearby that you could stand her on and get some better pictures? It is hard to see much and make any sort of definitive opinion on it with the uneven ground and the grass being in the way. It may just be the pictures, but those hooves don't look even remotely balanced to me.
 
#6 ·
I think pictures in the parking lot would be good. Also, whenever you're taking them, you might want to take some that show both her hooves and her legs from the front/sides. That will help folks see whether or not her hooves appear balanced for her leg shape/conformation.
 
#7 ·
when we bought her when she walked her knees hit together. the insides of he feet were around 3 inches and the outsides were 6 inches. she was dead lame. her inside walls were paper thin while the outsides were extremely thick. the church isn't far from us but i live on a dirt road and don't have any concrete pads so i will take better pictures tomorrow.
 
#8 ·
If you check out the recent thread called Xrays to share, a lot of the info applies here.

You need a new farrier. Those feet were far too long when the shoes were put on. The toes are way too long, the heels are way too long, the bars are way too long. The wall is jammed up into the coronary. You can see the bruising from this coming down the outside of the outer hoof wall on one side. The bars and heels were left longer on the outsides so the bars are more laid over to the outside. This is forcing the horse to stand on the inner part of the foot, and to toe out.

Perhaps this is an improvement, but it still is very far from ideal for the horse.
 
#10 ·
Please do not critique my farrier works until after you see it. It isnt fair to him for people to critique work on a horse that has been 8 weeks sense his visit. This mare is far from ideal, yes. But what we had to work with was not pretty. It takes a long time to correct such a severe problem in a horse that is finished growing. It isnt a badabingbadaboom fix. This mares feet grow extremely fast and in every direction. These pictures are a poor example becaue they are so overgrown. I was sharing current pictures to see if anybody had ideas of what could be done to help improve her and then on wednesday I will post pictures of what my farrier is doing with her to correct her. My farrier has been out of work and I didnt want to have someone else because I didnt want to chance them causing her to go lame. So, please wait for the pictures on wednesday of after the farrier has trimmed and shod her to critique his work.

Now the right front, that still has the shoe, the shoe has twisted sense her hoof as grown which is something the farrier will address to keep it from happening again. But also, in all good luck, she will never have to wait to have her shoes done this long again. Waiting 2 1/2 extra weeks to have shoes done is hard on a horse especially with a poor hoof.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Its a disservice and not helping your case of fixing anything to let a horse with limb problems go 8 weeks if this is the result of 8 weeks of growth. Those feet look 4 weeks overdue at LEAST no matter what the time frame actually is and are very distorted. The farrier may not be trimming enough off if they are this bad at 8 weeks. Those heels are crazy long and there are some serious balance issues that may affect her soundness. Im glad to hear you are getting X rays. A 8 yo, you cannot change joints other than to balance them as best possible.

By now, the farrier is going to be chasing his tail trying to correct overgrowth problems at this next shoeing like the distorted hoof capsule and long toe you have there from excessive overgrowth. I would put this horse on a 5 week cycle till those feet are in better shape. 6 weeks MAX.
 
#17 ·
Its a disservice and not helping your case of fixing anything to let a horse with limb problems go 8 weeks if this is the result of 8 weeks of growth. Those feet look 4 weeks overdue at LEAST no matter what the time frame actually is and are very distorted. The farrier may not be trimming enough off if they are this bad at 8 weeks. Those heels are crazy long and there are some serious balance issues that may affect her soundness. Im glad to hear you are getting X rays. A 8 yo, you cannot change joints other than to balance them as best possible.

By now, the farrier is going to be chasing his tail trying to correct overgrowth problems at this next shoeing like the distorted hoof capsule and long toe you have there from excessive overgrowth. I would put this horse on a 5 week cycle till those feet are in better shape. 6 weeks MAX.
All our horses go on a 4 week cycle starting the first week in april due to how much we ride and the shoes get loose or thrown before we can make it to five or six weeks. We go to six weeks during the winter because we dont ride that much due to all the rain and snow. I cant help it that our farrier was injured at another job. I still didnt feel it necassary to take a risk and have someone I dont know shoe her. I realize that her feet are way overgrown and hes going to have to do some major work to get all the access off but that is just what he is going to have to do. This mare has come a long way in a year. I wish I had before pictures to show you but I was more worried about getting her to where she could walk and move around without being in pain than I was taking pictures. Please wait till tomorrow when I can post pictures of the farriers work so that you can critigue his work.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Good advice above.

I personally would get her a trim and leave her barefoot and see what SHE wants. It's hard for her to tell you what she needs with shoes on. I really do think that watching how she grows her own feet barefoot will/can be a good starting point towards any correction that's appropriate.

Xrays are a great idea. A great reference.

I don't have hoof in hand, but is any hoof on her clubby or grows more heel than the other?

Why is your farrier out of work?
 
#13 ·
we tried leaving her barefoot and she goes unsound again because she will wear the insides completely down and not the outside. i don't know how long her feet were like this before we got her but i had never seen a horse this bad. when we first put shoes on her the third day she had them on was the first day she could actually walk without a limp. her heels and toes grow like crazy. she is the fastest growing horse we have. i don't think she is clubby in either front. farrier has said nothing about it. i don't know if i mentioned it in the first post but she has floundered previous to us getting her
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#15 ·
Hi,

In addition to the above, Yes, better pics would be helpful & some post-trim ones too. See the link below in my signature for good hoof pic tips. Also yes, include the whole body, side-on, from front & from behind. Have you had a bodyworker(eg veterinary chiro or such) out to check her out? That's the first thing I'd consider. Bone/joint changes can't be made as a mature horse but adjustments & soft tissue changes may make all the difference.
 
#18 ·
Hi,

In addition to the above, Yes, better pics would be helpful & some post-trim ones too. See the link below in my signature for good hoof pic tips. Also yes, include the whole body, side-on, from front & from behind. Have you had a bodyworker(eg veterinary chiro or such) out to check her out? That's the first thing I'd consider. Bone/joint changes can't be made as a mature horse but adjustments & soft tissue changes may make all the difference.
We have two different vets working with her. One here in VA and then we take her back and forth to the one in NC (which is the one who will be doing xrays). We also have a chiro that will be back out in april along with the VA vet and farrier in the same day. The chiro comes out in april and october. She is also working with one of my other horses. Rain has a hard diet to figure out because their are some many things she cant have. We have talked to both vets a nutritionist about what we can give her and how to help maintain her weight better. Pretty much the only things she gets or can have it straight timothy hay, timothy pellets, and beet pulp. All feeds have been rulled out because she cant have oats, alfalfa, soy, corn, or molasses. I dont know that sense we have ruled out some of things causing her issues if it has helped promote alot more hoof growth.
 
#16 ·
Sorry for the hold up on pictures. I was hoping the weather would break but instead today we are just getting a heavy layer of ice on everything to make it worse. I will definitely get pictures before the trim tomorrow on hard top and then get some after pictures. Tomorrow is suppose to be fairly decent weather so hopefully the rain/ice will go away.
 
#20 ·
You have to trim her to balance the foot she has. If you try to "correct" her legs (make them straight), you will lame her and potentially cripple her. Balance the foot to her.

If you're going to correct legs, it must be done as a very very young foal.

If she is toed out, she is always going to be toed out. It MAY get better once her hooves are balanced, but she isn't going to ever be straight. That is her confo and she needs her feet balanced to her confo.
 
#22 ·
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