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-   -   Is he a dun? Frame? (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-colors-genetics/he-dun-frame-155049/)

Nightside 02-28-2013 07:01 PM

Is he a dun? Frame?
 
Dun is one of those genes that boggles my mind. I understand cream and champagne well enough, but I was wondering the colors behind these horses. They are APHA registered if that makes a difference but don't know the names.

My other question is about frame. Pretty clear the sire has it, so could the colt have it and be hiding it? I've seen some of you post solid or nearly solids that turned out to be frame when tested.

Sire -

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...f/scan0001.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...f/3181-00C.jpg

Dam and colt -

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...abykaya022.jpg

Colt - 10 months old

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...arWolf/008.jpg
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CLaPorte432 02-28-2013 07:12 PM

Yes, id say he is bay dun, like his dam.

And he can absolutely hide frame. His dam could have been hiding it as well, so it would have been smart to have her tested before breeding to that sire. But, colt is healthy.

If you ever use him for breeding, test him first. Its a simple $25 test. Results come back in just a few weeks.
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smrobs 02-28-2013 07:37 PM

What is it about dun, exactly, that's got you confused? It's a modification gene that generally lightly dilutes the base coat color, gives the horse darker shaded points (legs, ears, sometimes mane and tail), but the most telling signs of dun is a very prominent and dark dorsal stripe, accompanied by a bar on the shoulders, often, there is also zebra striping on the legs, and sometimes there is also markings on the forehead.

Dun is dominant, so if the horse carries a single gene for it (heterozygous), then they will be colored as a dun. Heterozygous has a 50% chance of throwing a dun foal, homozygous will throw a dun foal every time, regardless of what they are bred to.

Yes, both dam and foal appear to be a bay dun...and very attractive as well.

Nightside 02-28-2013 07:52 PM

Thank you! I hope to see the colt this week, possibly a trade. I can usually pick out a champagne or cream horse but growing up I was taught anything with a dorsal stripe was dun. Now I come on here and learn about counter shading and that dun comes in shades depending on the base coat. I don't know why that was so surprising but I'm sure we've all been taught some incorrect horsey terms.

I knew there were other dun characteristics as well, I can remember being about 13 and thoroughly impressed that the girls horse beside me had zebra legs, and my horse was just white with butterscotch freckles that as an adult, I now realize was a grey.
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stevenson 02-28-2013 08:27 PM

The shading on the hind legs is neat .. hope it stays that way, the white leg marking then the dark is pretty. I would have called the mare a buckskin as I dont see a dorsal stripe. I would call your colt a dun as he has the dorsal stripe. and he is what many call a crop out paint ( basically a paint with no big spots) . He is sure cute.

kassierae 02-28-2013 09:14 PM

The colt can't be dun if the dam isn't dun, so yes I feel that they are both bay dun. Also, a crop out paint is a paint that is from two seemingly solid parents that produced a loud foal. A foal born of loud parents that has minimal markings is a solid paint bred.

Poseidon 02-28-2013 09:26 PM

You wouldn't be able to see a dorsal stripe on the mare at that angle, but that big patch of dark on her withers is a dun marking. Also, IMO, she's too gold to be a bay, but not quite gold enough for buckskin. I would guess the foal is bay dun too. Do you have a picture of the colt's face?

Nightside 02-28-2013 10:47 PM

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...arWolf/012.jpg

Sorry for the delay, had to ask for more pictures. But there is his cute face. Thank you for all the input, everyone! I totally missed the dark patch on the dam!
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Poseidon 02-28-2013 11:26 PM

He could easily be frame with the shape of his blaze. Frame prefers top heavy facial markings and something as simple as his could be caused by frame. You can see my mare's blaze in my avatar and she's N/O. Test him! If even for curiosity's sake if you plan on gelding him. :D

Nightside 02-28-2013 11:55 PM

She is cute! For 25 bucks it is definitely worth the curiosity. If I get him, time will tell if he keeps his danglies. Nut jobs don't get to keep their, well, ya know. ;)
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