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-   -   Tie Down question.....? (http://www.horseforum.com/barrel-racing/tie-down-question-155108/)

Kelsie1 03-01-2013 11:49 AM

Tie Down question.....?
 
Okay before you all read this just keep in mind that I'm not trying to go against what you all are saying it's just something that popped into my head!! Okay so a lot of you are telling me not to use tie downs that they are something to cover up other issues and not fix them....but yet i see world champions like Martha Josey- Sharon Camarillo- Sheri Cervi- ect..use them?? I asked Sharon camarillo and told her everything that i told you guys and she told me to use a tie down. Like i said I'm not trying to be rude or ignore you it's just a question!!

smrobs 03-01-2013 11:59 AM

99% of people who use tie-downs do so for all the wrong reasons, trying to fix or cover up a training issue (horses flinging their heads, stargazing, blowing out past the barrels, uncontrollable in the alley, rearing, etc). HOWEVER, tie downs, just like almost every other piece of tack, do have a legitimate use that isn't a training cover up. The purpose of a tie-down is to give a horse something to brace against to maintain strength and balance in a very hard and fast turn or stop. In the case of roping horses, it allows the horse to tighten their back muscles so that the jerk on the horn when the rope comes tight is much less likely to injure their back. Some barrel horses do need a little bit more help with turning, whether it's because of their own running style or their conformation.

Where tie-downs get their bad name is at every rodeo/event all across the world where people just slap a tie-down on there with no clue what it's for or how to adjust it. They put it on there because they are having trouble or because it "looks cool", and they don't consider that using it when it's not needed or using it improperly can cause even more issues than they are currently dealing with.

beau159 03-01-2013 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelsie1 (Post 1917706)
Okay before you all read this just keep in mind that I'm not trying to go against what you all are saying it's just something that popped into my head!! Okay so a lot of you are telling me not to use tie downs that they are something to cover up other issues and not fix them....but yet i see world champions like Martha Josey- Sharon Camarillo- Sheri Cervi- ect..use them?? I asked Sharon camarillo and told her everything that i told you guys and she told me to use a tie down. Like i said I'm not trying to be rude or ignore you it's just a question!!

I don't know what to tell you, but the video you have showed us here and the descriptions you have told us, all indicate that you need to go back and re-train the horse properly. In your situation, using a tie down would be using it for the wrong reasons.

And based on Sharon Camarillo's book, she says that everyone should use a tie down for barrel racing. Not everyone believes in that philosophy and I am one of them. Every trainer is going to have a different opinion.

smrobs couldn't have said it better. Tie-downs do have their place in barrel racing. There are times when a tie down will truly help the horse run better when it is used for the right reason and when it is adjusted properly. For myself, I will have my horse correctly slow loping the barrel pattern before I try a tie down. That way, the horse has already learned to balance correctly on their own. If the tie down seems to help them, I will continue to use it. If it makes no difference, then they simply don't need it.

Plus, just using Sherry Cervi as an example, it really changes things when you've got to make 10 runs in a row at the NFR usually on the same horse (Stingray). You are going to need to make a few more adjustments at the NFR than the average barrel racer is going to need to make on a regular basis. If Stingray needs a tie down to keep her sanity running 10 times in a row at the high energy Thomas & Mack, Sherry is an educated horsewoman and will give Stingray what she needs to succeed.

Ray MacDonald 03-01-2013 05:49 PM

You also have to trin your horse to properly go in a tie down. A tie down takes away some of the balance the horse makes with it's neck. What you take away from the front must be gained from the back.

Wanstrom Horses 03-01-2013 08:29 PM

And just to ad, IMHO, those world champion barrel racers are not good riders, nor good trainers. Did you see how many barrels were knocked over and how large the pockets were on some of the runs at this years NFR? They can just afford expensive, and very fast horses..

beau159 03-01-2013 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wanstrom Horses (Post 1918415)
And just to ad, IMHO, those world champion barrel racers are not good riders, nor good trainers. Did you see how many barrels were knocked over and how large the pockets were on some of the runs at this years NFR? They can just afford expensive, and very fast horses..

Excuse me?

Yes, some of the NFR girls buy their horses, because when you are practically on the road 24/7, it is very difficult to have the time to train one yourself.

If I am not mistaken, Lisa Lockhart trained both Louie and Chism herself.

Sherry Cervi is one of THE BEST riders, hands down, when it comes to barrel racing. She's so soft in her cues that you hardly even see her cueing her horse.

Britany Fleck (not at this year's NFR, but qualified last year) completely trained her horse Rootie from a filly to a trained winner. And just won a round at Rodeo Houston (if I heard correctly on the news last night). She won the whole thing last year (by one cent), for a nice $50,000 winner check.

And Mary Walker (the reining world champion) has overcome more obstacles in her life than most people, and yet she still seasoned Latte and made him a world champion. (I can't recall, but she may have even trained him herself.)

Those are just the first 4 examples that come to my mind.

The National Finals Rodeo is balls-to-the-walls, no holding back. Especially if you have knocked a barrel over in the previous round and took yourself out of the average race, when $18,000 is on the line for a round WIN, you are going to cut barrels as close as you can, and sometimes, knock them over. Just to try to win the round for an $18,000 check.

They are not knocking over barrels because they are snobby little rich girls who bought themselves a pet and can't ride.

It is very naive and uneducated and obtuse of you to say that these girls at the NFR are bad riders and bad trainers. Not to mention disrespectful. Wow.

Wanstrom Horses 03-01-2013 09:11 PM

Alright, chill out. I've barrel raced in the ImPRA for five years before I went into bridle horses. I've seen plenty of bad runs at the NFR. Yes, they are world champions, and yes they haul 24/7. But I haven't seen very many good runs at the NFR, IMO. I've seen a lot of elbows flying, huge pockets, and out of control horses. Call me a witch, but I'm not uneducated in this stuff. Maybe it's just me, since I've been critiquing lessons girls for three years, but I see flaws in their runs, and I don't think they need put on a pedestal as amazing riders.

beau159 03-01-2013 09:57 PM

Have you ever run a world quality horse at the Thomas and Mack for the NFR? You are sure talking like you know it all, since you've barrel raced a whole 5 years. It is an extremely difficult arena to run in. Blind entry to the first barrel, not the best ground, a very small pattern where every mistake will cost you, and extremely high pressure atmosphere.

I can't even imagine how difficult it is to make a "perfect" run at the NFR. Not to mention running 10 times in a row and your horse beginning to anticipate every move with that repetition and stress. Of course the horses are going to get hot when they run 10 consecutive nights at the same arena.

You only barrel raced for five years, which is a drop in a bucket for any disciple, not just barrels. Runs don't have to be picture perfect and they certainly won't always be when things happen that quickly in 14 seconds. It's just gotta be fast when that much money is on the line. The NFR is basically your profit for the year. Most money won up to that point goes to covering expenses, or so I am told by those who have been to the NFR. Looking back at your run, there will always be something you wish you could have done differently, but things happen so fast during a barrel run, things happen and you've got to move on.

Sure. There ARE bad barrel racers out there. Just like there are bad WP trainers, or bad reining trainers, etc etc. The ladies that work their butts off to get to the NFR are not one of them and certainly don't deserve to be called such. Uneducated? Yes.

I'd like to see your "perfect" barrel racing video where you win a BIG rodeo. I'm sure there are flaws that can be picked out too. There always is something.
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Wanstrom Horses 03-01-2013 10:04 PM

I never said I didn't have flaws, I'm sure I've had some ugly runs too, but just because you have run at the NFR doesn't make you a good horseman, take a look at the hands on the teamropers and calf Ropers, like iron at the ends of the reins. That is simply the point I was trying to make. I guess I shoulda worded what I had said differently. I apologize for coming off rude. And five years is just how long I was in the ImPRA, but that doesn't matter. I never went to the NFR, I admit it, I ran on a home raised, hammer headed Hancock bred foundation mare, not your average running horse. I do understand rodeoing for a living and how stressful it can be, but putting people on a pedestal just for winning something doesn't make much sense to me.. Sorry for coming off as rude, the losing brain cells during pregnancy thing is very true I'm finding out! :D

CLaPorte432 03-01-2013 10:07 PM

893 Attachment(s)
Also, just a comment of the "large pockets" quote...

After the first few runs, im sure horses are anticipating those turns. In order to PREVENT the horse from knocking a barrel, a good rider will ride a large pocket. That 1 second it may add, is way better then knocking a barrel and getting pushed out of the money completely. Its called riding smart. It may not be the ideal pattern...but its the best way to go.

ETA: There are numerous "okay" barrel racers that get the reputation for being "so totally awesome"...(Fallon Taylor) but there are some racers that truly are amazing at what they do. Cervi on Stringray is a prime example, i admire the way she riders that little horse!
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