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What bit would you suggest? Currently use a Wonder Bit

10K views 41 replies 12 participants last post by  QHriderKE 
#1 ·
Okay bit guru's. Need some advice here.

I bought Red last year in May. He is turning 7 years old this year. When I bought him, he was ridden in a twisted wire O-ring snaffle and a tie down. I ditched the tie down and the twisted wire, and went to a smooth snaffle.

While he does listen "okay" in the smooth snaffle, he listens better to the Wonder Bit.




The Wonder Bit also worked great to teach him how to break at the poll. His head tends to shoot up to the sky when something catches his attention (he is very ADHD, so that happens alot) and that's why they were using a tie down on him. Obviously, I want to fix the head set issue, and not just slap a tie down on him.

I have been using a German martingale on occasion, which really, really helps me teach him to lower that head and travel in a more relaxed and rounded frame, along with proper leg and body cues from me.




However, I don't want to ride him in the Wonder Bit all the time, because he does have the tendency to start to ignore the gag action. I'd rather save the Wonder Bit to use with the German martingale as "tune ups" when he needs them, and ride him in something else.

So, here's where I am looking for suggestions: On something that would be similar to the action of the Wonder Bit .... but without the gag, that I can use for our regular every day riding.

I have a twisted wire Jr cowhorse that I have tried, but that really is too much bit for him. He doesn't need that much bite. I think this bit may eventually be a good competition bit for barrel racing, but we aren't doing more than slow loping the pattern right now so he doesn't need a competition bit yet.

I've tried a sweet six bit (smooth mouth) that had a combo rope nose on it. He hated that! Threw his nose a ton, which isn't like him.

The majority of riding that I do is trail riding, with a focus on conditioning. We'll typically go at least 4 miles a ride, usually 5 or 6. He's got loads of energy and needs the conditioning to stay fit.

I guess I am big fan of using different bits for the different events I will do with him:
--daily trail riding / conditioning -- bit?
--training bit for barrels/poles -- not sure yet, but a Little S hack has been working well for poles
--competition bit for barrels/poles -- not there yet, but potentially a Jr. Cowhorse if he gets to the point where he needs it
--tuning up bit for breaking at the poll -- wonder bit + german martingale
--competition bit for reining and western pleasure (I just do these for fun at low key horse shows) -- bit? Or this could be the same as my regular riding bit.


I do have a non-gag bit that I bought to try a while back, but I can't remember what it looks like, haha. I will take a picture of it when I am at the barn tonight.

So, suggestions?
 
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#2 · (Edited)
I'm confused as to what you mean by "something that would be similar to the action of the Wonder Bit .... but without the gag" But I'm going to assume you like the added poll pressure?
So, given that, I'm gonna say that I like bits such as these for regular riding (if the horse doesnt do "everyday" riding in a snaffle.)







Now, I wonder what you'd think of a correction bit with a low port...



It is a heavier bit, and it very well could be too much bit for him...

Another thing I would suggest is a smooth snaffle Jr. Cowhorse. A chain mouth Jr. Cowhorse is also very light.
 
#3 ·
I'm confused as to what you mean by "something that would be similar to the action of the Wonder Bit .... but without the gag" But I'm going to assume you like the added poll pressure?
So, given that, I'm gonna say that I like bits such as these for regular riding (if the horse doesnt do "everyday" riding in a snaffle.)


Another thing I would suggest is a smooth snaffle Jr. Cowhorse. A chain mouth Jr. Cowhorse is also very light.
LOL, I maybe don't know what I mean either!!

I guess just something that would be similar to the Wonder Bit, since he does seem to work nicely in it. But like I said, he tends to get "used" to the gag action and isn't as responsive in it over time. So that's why I'm looking for something without gag action to use as my "every day" riding bit.

Also, since I want to do some reining with him at local small shows, you can't have any gag action on a bit for it to be legal to show in.

And dang, I forgot to take a picture of the bit I have in my tack room. Maybe tomorrow I'll remember! I do believe it looks like the second bit you posted, except I believe it had only one break in the mouthpiece, and not a dog bone roller. I had purchased it with the idea of maybe using it for showing events, since there was no gag action to make it show legal.

I really don't think he needs a very long shank at all.

And I had thought about getting a smooth mouth Jr cowhorse, because he definately doesn't need the twisted wire for regular riding. As I mentioned, I think that would be a good bit for barrel racing down the road, because it is nice to have a little extra WHOA just in case you need it when you get into a competition environment like a rodeo.
 
#5 ·

I LIKE THIS BIT would love to own one like it where did you get it.


I have looked at this bit at stores the ball hinges make me a little nervous do you like? I guess it makes me nervous cause its something new. I hate buying someones new idea and finding out its a bad one.
 
#7 ·
"I do believe it looks like the second bit you posted, except I believe it had only one break in the mouthpiece, and not a dog bone roller."

Sounds like a Tom Thumb...

I would try the sweet six again without the noseband.

I'm guessing you only ride western but you could always try a Oxford Kimberwick, which you could make into a snaffle or a mild curb bit or you could have two reins attatched so you could have a snaffle and a curb.
 
#15 ·
Sounds like a Tom Thumb...

I would try the sweet six again without the noseband.

I'm guessing you only ride western but you could always try a Oxford Kimberwick, which you could make into a snaffle or a mild curb bit or you could have two reins attatched so you could have a snaffle and a curb.
Umm, no. I know what a Tom Thumb is, and the bit I have is not a Tom Thumb. TT's are garbage.

Maybe I'll actually remember to take a picture of it tonight, since the last 3 times I've been to the barn I have totally and utterly forgotten.

I can't try the sweet six without the noseband because it is physically attached. (Mine has a smooth mouth though, NOT twisted like this picture.) Even so, I feel like that would be the same issue anyway as I have with the gag action of the Wonder Bit, where he starts to ignore the gag warning?






QHriderKE: I wouldn't be opposed to try the Mylar snaffle you posted. Typically a curb with a short shank has been working just a bit better for him though.


COWCHICK77: So please tell me when you have met Red because you just described him perfectly!!!! LOL. Yes, I do think that is part of the problem, in that I am still trying to figure him out. He is just so different from any other horse I have ever had, so he's certainly been a (good) challenge. Hence why we have been going very, very, very slow on the barrels, or he would be the type of horse that would be a blow-up nut job at a barrel race.

He does have some bolting issues too, that have been getting a little bit better as I am slowly figuring him out. For example: We'll be out walking in the middle of nowhere. All of a sudden, he'll stop, head high in the air, eyes wide, staring at something for a few seconds (half of the time, there's never anything there and I can't figure out what he is looking at). At that point, I cease to exist on his back. Then he will panic, turn, and bolt. If it gets to that, he will 100% ignore the bit in his mouth, and ignore my body cues. So lately, what I have been trying to do, is immediately try to get his attention back by doing serpentines or rollbacks or just something to get his feet moving again, and out of that frozen staring stance. It's been helping. He isn't bolting as hard, since I've kind got his attention back again, and get his focus off of the scary horse-eating invisible object.

And yup, he will lope himself to death before stopping. He is the energizer bunny and he can't be tired out! But he's also the type that I can't do too much with drills or concentration exercises either, because he gets wound up when I "pick" at him.

So I am still trying to find that perfect balance with him and figuring out his quirks.

If he hadn't gotten himself hurt in January, he would actually be at a reining trainer at the moment .... but I'm hoping I can still get him there eventually, to help me figure him out more!

And he certainly seems to enjoy working cows. Pins his ears and actually focuses on them!! So I'm hoping to do alot more of that this year too with him.
 
#13 ·
I have this Myler and its my favorite bit to use for arena work and trail riding! All my horses work wonderful in it. And i even get "lipstick foamy lips" from my horses which ive never got before. Super nice, easy bit.
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#9 · (Edited)
Gah! Typed out a response then it didn't post and I couldn't get it back....

Any how, Red reminds me of a horse I rode a couple of years ago, same build and personilty, reactive, ADD and super athletic. She was a cowhorse reject started by a very well known barn then started poorly and too fast on barrels. This filly would see something, suck back, hit hard and then grab top gear. If you were not paying attention then you were laying in the dirt. I found that after dealing with the ADD or reactiveness the bit selection became much easier. I could hang something on her accoerding to her mouth conformation and might like rather than having a semi-controlled run off...LOL!
Eventually with work I got a handle on the reactivness by putting her to work with lots of counterbending shoulder exercises and moving hindquarters, side passing, exercises that require concentration. She also was the type of horse you couldn't lope down, she would keel over dead before slowing up, she would just get hotter and completely lose her mind. These are the ones that need to be really outhinked rather than wore out physically. But once I got in her head the bit wasn't an issue. Again, your horse just reminds me of this filly, so if I am off base tell me so and disregard LOL!
 
#10 ·
Cowchick, that mare kind of sounds like Squiggy.
Wound up tighter than a fiddlestring.
The only difference: I ride Squiggy in a loose ring snaffle most of the time without a problem. She doesn't EVER ignore bit action, she just gets frustrated instead and acts out.
 
#12 ·
Ruger is a horse who needs someone to get in his head. He's not a particularly hot horse but he plays if you leave him to his own devices, loses focus, etc.

I would try maybe a smooth dogbone pozzi lifter or the sweet six without the nose band. Also maybe a loomis.
 
#16 ·
Also maybe a loomis.
I have definately considered a loomis for him, but I honestly have never used one before and I know that the loomis is a particular bit that you need to use correctly.

I had planned on taking a couple barrel racing lessons from a trainer this summer, and I'm sure she'd be able to show me how to correctly use the loomis.
 
#14 ·


Also have this bit that ive competed in. The horse i used it on works very well in it.
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#18 ·
Okay, I finally remember to take pictures of what I got out there!!

This is the bit I had purchased over the winter, with the intent of possibly using it for a "showing" bit when I do reining, competitive trail, etc with Red. It is show legal, right? The shanks both swivel independently. (See? It's NOT a Tom Thumb.) I'll probably replace that chain chinstrap, with a leather/chain combo (like I have pictured on the second bit).





The other bit I considered, but haven't tried on him yet (because I really don't know if he needs that long of a shank ... although I guess it's not bad), is this bit. I guess I also haven't really tried it yet because it was Beau's bit. I had to put Beau down last fall, so still kind of sore about it because it was HIS regular riding bit. Silly reason, yes, but maybe I should try it on him and see how he goes in it. I know that this one is NOT show legal because of the teeny amount of gag, since the bit can slide just a tad. (It's a little dirty. I should really clean it up.)

 
#19 ·
The first bit you posted is called an argentine snaffle, while obviously not a snaffle it's the name of it. I'm really fond of them and find them to be a good step up from a snaffle. Since the sides are independent, and the shanks are short. Mine just has a roller in the middle. I like the second bit to, have a similar one without the gag. I think I would try the first one out and see how he does.
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#20 ·
I like both of those bits well enough, but to show in I still prefer a billy allen bit over the un covered single joint. I don't normally use a single joint shank anything, regardless, but there are exceptions.



That's the billy allen that I show Selena in. I avoid the nutcracker action at all costs.
 
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#26 ·
I like the looks of that bit.

But here's where I am bit illiterate.

Can someone explain the difference between this bit SH posted, and the difference between my bit? As in, what pressure points it places on the inside of the mouth when engaged. I am familiar with the term "nutcracker effect" but maybe after I have it explained to me the 100th time I'll maybe start to remember details..... :oops:


 
#21 ·
You can have your favorite bits for your horse, but NO BIT will train your horse to break at the poll, or give to pressure. Horses with training will often prefer a bit and work well in it, and give you the impression that the bit is the reason, when it is just a matter of what the horse is used to.
It is often easier to stay with a bit that "works" for your horse. I do not care for the "Wonder Bit." It is a type of elevator or gag bit. I believe that any apparatus that forces a horse's head in one way of another is inviting some kind of fight or refusal when the horse is stressed. I prefer my horse to understand that he has a correct way to react to fear, and I train them to be able to shy away when frightened and then stop, but not feel restricted and react by bucking or rearing or bolting. Any bit that pulls on the poll restricts movement and we know that a horse will lean against anything that restricts him when frightened, like pulling to the end of lead when frightened and tied.
I was impressed when watching a program with the early training of a "Mustang Challenge" horse that had learned a good "whoa" very early, done with long lining and a halter.
Btw, I like that correction bit.
 
#22 ·
You can have your favorite bits for your horse, but NO BIT will train your horse to break at the poll, or give to pressure. Horses with training will often prefer a bit and work well in it, and give you the impression that the bit is the reason, when it is just a matter of what the horse is used to.

It is often easier to stay with a bit that "works" for your horse. I do not care for the "Wonder Bit." It is a type of elevator or gag bit. I believe that any apparatus that forces a horse's head in one way of another is inviting some kind of fight or refusal when the horse is stressed. I prefer my horse to understand that he has a correct way to react to fear, and I train them to be able to shy away when frightened and then stop, but not feel restricted and react by bucking or rearing or bolting. Any bit that pulls on the poll restricts movement and we know that a horse will lean against anything that restricts him when frightened, like pulling to the end of lead when frightened and tied.

I was impressed when watching a program with the early training of a "Mustang Challenge" horse that had learned a good "whoa" very early, done with long lining and a halter.
Btw, I like that correction bit.
I agree that proper TRAINING is what makes the horse; not the bit. However, I also don't want to "under-bit" him or use a bit that doesn't maximize what we can do together. I feel like a horse will become just as dead-mouthed if you've got to pull-pull-pull on a snaffle to get a response than if you slapped on a bit that was too harsh for them with harsh hands. But I am all about trying to find the bit that works best for him for barrels. And find the bit that works the best for showing. And find the bit that works best for normal trail riding. And that does not necessarily mean a harsher bit for any of those things. Just one that works the best.

I should do more ground work with him as a regular routine than I have been doing, and am going to make it a regular part of "riding" for this year. However, he has never once pulled back when tied, pulled on me when lunging, or anything of that nature at all. I have only had him since May, but whoever started him under saddle did a good job with ground work. I like to use Clinton Anderson's methods, and Red will back up with the simple jiggle of the lead rope, he will disengage his hindquarters (when paying attention well to me) just by me "glaring" at them, etc. I can move his body wherever I need when I do ground work. And he stops on a dime when I say the word "whoa". I just need to make it a regular thing, rather than only doing it when I suspect a problem with something. But overall, he does very well at ground work. I (as the rider) am still trying to figure out how to get that to translate perfectly to our riding.

I tried to teach him to break at the poll with a snaffle. He didn't understand it. It's not that I don't know how to train it per se, because every other horse I've shown how to do has understood it no problem, but he just such a different horse that I know that he needs me to ask it in a different way --- I'm just not sure how. (I already mentioned this, but that's why I am going to take him to a reining trainer. He would already be there, if he hadn't gotten hurt and is needing doctoring.) But when I tried the Wonder Bit in combination with the martingale, then he finally understood what I was asking. Now, I can get him to break at the poll in any bit, but of course he does it the best with the wonder bit and the martingale. He most certainly could be breaking at the poll better than he is, but from what we started with, I'm pretty pleased with him at this point. Baby steps, one at a time.

I think my #1 problem to overcome with him is how I can get him to focus on me, because he's so scatter-brained. He reminds me of the dog "that could talk" on UP! where on the commerical he goes "Squirrel!!!!!". That is exactly Red. We'll be trail riding along, and all of a sudden, he'll stop dead and be convinced something is going to eat him. Granted, he does NOT bolt on every single ride, maybe only 2 or 3 times a month, but that is still much more than I want to happen. Again, he's getting better at what I've been doing lately (trying to get his attention back to get him to move his feet and not be stuck there), but it still could be better.

And yes, that's not something a bit is going to correct. But I would prefer to be using something other than the Wonder Bit. Of course, I am going to ask the trainer what bit she would recommend when I finally get him there in about a month, but I do value the opinions on here too so I figured I'd ask.

Yes, I absolutely could go ride him in just a halter. He knows how to give to pressure (when he's paying attention) ......... Interesting how almost everythiing is "when he's paying attention" ...... gah, ADHD Red! But, of course, he is going to ride BETTER in a bit that compliments him. Long-winded story short!!
 
#23 ·
You misunderstand. I've only ridden 3/36 horses I have owned in JUST a halter, and they were both dead broke, in their teens, and used in about 7,000 hours of lessons in my riding academy when I taught with them.
You have a problem if your horse doesn't pay attention to you. How about "telling him to give you two eyes?"
Yank that halter and get him to pay attention!
IMO you are not asking for perfect behavior, every time with what he already knows.
Hate to repeat, BUT,
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/how-when-what-do-you-reprimand-155078/page3/#post1922020
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/horse-not-moving-when-leading-how-154984/#post1916539
 
#25 ·
You misunderstand. I've only ridden 3/36 horses I have owned in JUST a halter, and they were both dead broke, in their teens, and used in about 7,000 hours of lessons in my riding academy when I taught with them.
You have a problem if your horse doesn't pay attention to you. How about "telling him to give you two eyes?"
Yank that halter and get him to pay attention!
IMO you are not asking for perfect behavior, every time with what he already knows.
Hate to repeat, BUT,
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/how-when-what-do-you-reprimand-155078/page3/#post1922020
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/horse-not-moving-when-leading-how-154984/#post1916539
Okay, I've read through the both of those.

Red is a VERY personable horse. He was indeed spoiled by his previous owners and he will crowd your personal space on the ground if you let him. I do not let him. There is a time when I will invite him into "my bubble" but he is not to be in my bubble otherwise. Period. That's not an issue anymore. I used to carry my carrot stick with me when ground handling him, but I don't need to anymore because I've taught him not to crowd me.

Red also doesn't rush through the gate. I open the gate and when I'm ready to ask him to walk through, I will direct him with my hand and "send him".

He is not allowed to lick me or bite me. He tried it a couple times when I first got him last year and he quickly realized that wasn't going to fly. He hasn't tried it since.

He is not allowed to rub his head on me. Ever. I know that his head is itchy after a ride when I take the bridle off, so after he has been haltered nicely, I will be the one to scratch him (because he likes it). But not the other way around. I'm not a scratching post.

He still doesn't stand nicely when I re-check the cinch before I mount. I haven't been able to "figure him out" on this one yet. He's gotten much better, but he can still improve. He will, however, stand nicely after I mount and is not allowed to start walking until I say so.

He tried to buck 2 or 3 times when I first got him, when I would ask him to gallop circles. But basically, his previous owners never made him do any real work. He quit trying to buck after I made him gallop harder and work harder, and he hasn't tried since. He knows he can't get away with it.

........

Anyway, I just give all these different examples because I am not letting him walk all over me.

But I am for sure still trying to figure out how to get his attention on me for those times when we are riding and he does chose to ignore me.

He has never balked and bolted when handling him on the ground, like the times he has while riding. As I already said, I can't even recall him even pulling on the lead the handlful of times he has spooked or something on the leadrope. There's a big disconnect between his riding and his ground manners.

And maybe I should have worded my ground work differently. But I'm NOT going to yank on his halter, simply because he didn't notice my "glare" cue to ask him to disengage his hindquarters. But I am going to start tapping progressively harder on him with my carrot stick, or twirling the end of the lead rope, to make my request stronger until he gives me the correct response. I am going to give him a chance to respond and an opportunity to respond and not just YANK on him immediately. I won't do that. And I don't stop asking him until I get the correct response. It usually only takes using the carrot stick or the end of the lead rope once, and then he'll do it with a glare (disengage the hindquarters). So even though he may not focus on me right away, he is NOT getting away with it.

But when riding and he loses focus on me, are you then suggesting I YANK on his mouth? Or kick him in the belly? Or what???

Because that will NOT work with him. He is very, very, very sensitive. I carried a whip one time to help prevent him from "drifting" on one side of his loping circles, and he about came unglued and all I did was barely tap his shoulder a time or two. He bred to be a barrel horse. He's very sensitive and very reactive.

I also spent most of the summer getting him to travel at a relaxed pace, instead of galloping faster and faster (for example.) He is a go-go-go type of horse. He would fall over dead before voluntarily slowing down. I've spent a lot of time doing serpentines with him to get him to slow down, rather than constantly hanging on his mouth.

So it's really an opposite problem for the times he balks and then bolts. I don't want to start yanking on him or kicking on him to get his attention back, because it's just going to further scare and unnerve him. I don't want to make him any more upset than he already is. Hence why I try to somehow get him to move his feet, and it's been helping, but again, hard to grab his attention without making matters worse.

And maybe I'm not explaining his personality right through my words. He is just one unique individual. (And as I've already said, but I'll say it again before anyone tried to suggest it, I already am set up to take him to a trainer to help me figure him out.)
 
#24 ·
I think getting away from the singlt-jointed mouthpiece is a good place to start.
I have two ADHD mares and they both are madly in love with any bits that have rollers.
I'll make a bet that Red would like a bit with a dogbone and roller! It's just the shanks that you'll have to decide on.
 
#30 ·
I am glad you made sense of my post...geez, I hate typing on my phone...LOL!

I agree it would make things much simpler with one bit but until his brain gets on center, focuses and stays there that is going to be tough, I think. I was really hoping someone with some great wisdom would swoop in and suggest how to get in these types of horses heads rather than over bitting or under-bitting.

That is awesome he loves cows, it sounds like a good outlet for him(and you) to practice barrel maneuvers without the barrel pattern itself. He sounds like a great horse if you can get all that horse focused! Some of the best horse have been the hardest to deal with ;)
 
#31 ·
I just saw on RFD tv, a series on bits. the trainer on that show suggest a snaffle with a donut in the middle .. ----o---- , as this type of bit will allow you to control each side of the horses head . to attach to the O ring directly and not to the shanks. Hope this gives you an idea.
 
#33 ·
I just saw on RFD tv, a series on bits. the trainer on that show suggest a snaffle with a donut in the middle .. ----o---- , as this type of bit will allow you to control each side of the horses head . to attach to the O ring directly and not to the shanks. Hope this gives you an idea.
LOL, I just watched my recorded episode yesterday too.

It was Ken McNabb and I thought he did a very nice job of explaining the full-cheek snaffle and the donut O-ring snaffle.


Sounds like you should use that German martingale, along with a nice Snaffle. He should be breaking at the poll and everything else with a great deal of responsiveness regardless of the bit. I'm not a fan of changing bits to help achieve and teach headset or responsiveness. Although, I am a HUGE fan of the German martingale. I can't think of one horse I've trained that I couldn't get them soft by using a Snaffle and German martingale. IMO, go back to those tools and teach him what he NEEDS to know, then you may can use your wonder bit as your "competition bit" in the future. I love the wonder bit and know a lot of girls who use them on their speed events horses and ponies since they do the gymnaka(sp?) and not just strictly barrel racing. I think your best bet to teach your horse is a d ring and german martingale. Good luck.
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I guess I put together the Wonder Bit and the German Martingale because that's how they had it strung together where I purchased it.
Ed Wright German Martingale - The Tack Stop

How would I exactly do that with just a snaffle? Just simply hook the reins on the same ring that the martingale leather runs through too? Like this?
(Mine doesn't have a neck strap, but I just run the bottom through a loop on my breastcollar so he can't get a leg through it.)




I never really thought to try it with my snaffle, because I felt like I'd be doing something wrong by stringing both through the same ring.

I suppose I could have posted what my snaffle bit looks like that I use on him.

 
#32 ·
Sounds like you should use that German martingale, along with a nice Snaffle. He should be breaking at the poll and everything else with a great deal of responsiveness regardless of the bit. I'm not a fan of changing bits to help achieve and teach headset or responsiveness. Although, I am a HUGE fan of the German martingale. I can't think of one horse I've trained that I couldn't get them soft by using a Snaffle and German martingale. IMO, go back to those tools and teach him what he NEEDS to know, then you may can use your wonder bit as your "competition bit" in the future. I love the wonder bit and know a lot of girls who use them on their speed events horses and ponies since they do the gymnaka(sp?) and not just strictly barrel racing. I think your best bet to teach your horse is a d ring and german martingale. Good luck.
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#37 ·
I agree with Ariat on trying the German Martingale with a snaffle rather than the Wonder Bit. The German martingale is good in small doses as a reminder or to teach but shouldn't be relied on to create a "headset". It is easy to create a false headset with one, the headset don't mean sh!t if the *** isn't connected to it if you know what I mean :)
 
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