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Agressive Stallion REFUSED to lay down *LONG*

23K views 152 replies 61 participants last post by  SorrelHorse 
#1 ·
Let me start off by saying that I am very experience in horse training. I have a 4 year degree in Western Horsemanship from Univ. Of Findlay.


Now. Let me give you the short version here...

I have rarely in my training ever had to lay a horse down. A handful of times. I do it correctly I do it humanely and I do it safely.

That being said. I got in a 3 year old Appy stallion for training a few days ago. He has become so aggressive the owners cannot handle him anymore and are going to sell him but wanted to get him trained first.

Don't say it.. I told them. he should be gelded first off. Not my horse not my decision.


THat being said.. they have spent the last three years letting this A$$hole become who he is... ramming through people.. rearing.. striking. He would not even walk in the stall when he came here two days ago. we had to blindfold him to get him in.

So I went to work today. Lunged the crap out of him than when he was good an tired started laying down work. I have NEVER had a horse fight with the leg hobble so much from the start. Everytime I pulled it a bit to get him used to it he would stomp his foot nonstop so hard I thought he was going to hurt himself.


Flash forward.... I spent THREE hours working this horse down til he would tolerate holding the leg up without fighting.. He is by this point pouring sweat... legs trembling from being tired.. and no matter how much I waited him out.. kept asking him to lay.. he would not give in. I hate to say it but this horse beat even me. I figured by this point he was so dog tired we might be able to get him to walk in the stall. he had given up trying to fight out of the hobble but refused to lay down.

STILL wouldn't go in the stall lunging forward and striking.. reared a few times. but finally I think he realized I was going to win at this I guess and gave in. We no have no issue with him going in and out of stalls.

Now after this long drawn out story... anyone else have similar issues with a very aggressive horse? Ive never had one fight so long and still be no where near laying down and giving in.
 
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#2 ·
Wow. Sounds like a handful, and I wish you the best of luck. I am by NO means a trainer, but it sounds like you had a TEESNY bit of progress - today he went into his stall, not blindfolded. I would say to try again, every day, maybe even twice a day, until he gets it, if laying him down is what you want to do. You made a bit of progress with the leg hobble too - so maybe, like the stall when he realized he wasn't winning, one of these coming days he'll get it through his head that he is going to have to lay down.

Again. Not a trainer here, but that's my take on it. I'm sure others will chip in with advice too. :)
 
#5 ·
Yes I have had horses that did not lay down easily with one foot up. Are you just trying to rock the horse back with a foot up and his head over to the opposite side? Does this horse tie OK?

There are other techniques. I will PM you with details since I really to not want to explain that much on an open forum. I am afraid some novice will get hurt or hurt a horse trying to do something they have no business trying.
 
#6 ·
Yes I have had horses that did not lay down easily with one foot up. Are you just trying to rock the horse back with a foot up and his head over to the opposite side? Does this horse tie OK?

There are other techniques. I will PM you with details since I really to not want to explain that much on an open forum. I am afraid some novice will get hurt or hurt a horse trying to do something they have no business trying.

I would very much appreciate that.


Yes That is what I was doing. Rocking back and forth. he would basically give a little hop everytime. Every other time I have had to use this technique when horses got tired/gave up they would slowly lean back than lay down. This guy was NOT gonna do it even though he stopped fighting the one leg hobble. I tried slowly rocking with the head and with the one leg hobble no luck. I would get a small hop everytime.. and this guy was dead tired by this point. Never had a horse go that long (nearly 4 hours) AND still not even lay down once.
 
#10 ·
I agree with Shoebox- while you didn't accomplish what you were planning on, just getting him to go in and out of the stall properly is huge. Especially huge given what you've told us of his personality and responses. So while it wasn't your plan, sometimes you have to be flexible, and you still got a 'win' in. Keep at it. Keep pushing him and being consistent and I bet he will finally decide to give it. Once you get that, he will have a chance to learn how much easier life is if he lets you be in charge and you'll be on the way to the right path.

I hope you will keep updating us on him- I am always interested in these tough cases. Do you think horses like this ever become relaxed enough to be handled by 'average' competent horse people, or will he always need a very skilled handler? Or can you even venture a guess at this point?
 
#11 ·
I agree with Shoebox- while you didn't accomplish what you were planning on, just getting him to go in and out of the stall properly is huge. Especially huge given what you've told us of his personality and responses. So while it wasn't your plan, sometimes you have to be flexible, and you still got a 'win' in. Keep at it. Keep pushing him and being consistent and I bet he will finally decide to give it. Once you get that, he will have a chance to learn how much easier life is if he lets you be in charge and you'll be on the way to the right path.

I hope you will keep updating us on him- I am always interested in these tough cases. Do you think horses like this ever become relaxed enough to be handled by 'average' competent horse people, or will he always need a very skilled handler? Or can you even venture a guess at this point?

My honest opinion is that people who keep stallions should know how to manage stallions. I have three intact boys on my farm . I can walk them all around mares in season WITHOUT chains. they are WELL BEHAVED! HOWEVER... they don't naturally act like gentleman. They constantly need reminded of their brains and you cannot ever let your guard down around a stallion because they think with one thing only!

This particular horse has had three long years of being spoiled and allowed to get his way. Im guessing the owners think its cute when they give him treats and reward train him.. and than one day he was big.. and thinking with his you know what. They tried to get him to do one thing.. and he wanted to do another. Reared.. lunged... struck... and learned he got away with it. Fast forward to today. He is a 1000 lb animal and KNOWS IT.

I think these are the WORST kind of horses and the most dangerous kind. Owners spend years nursing these problems and expect trainers to work miracles with them.

Do I think this horse can be made to respect humans. YES.

Do I think that without reform from his owners though will he go right back to his old ways? YES!

I can go leaps and bounds with a horse.. but if the owner does not change the issues that brought that horse to this point... they will go directly back to what they know. This horse since he was allowed to get to this point will probably always need to be reminded who is boss.

He is with me for 60 days for "saddle breaking" but I swear I can never get a horse in that JUST needs saddle breaking.. they are always terrors! LOL
 
#17 ·
He's had three years to fall to this point (no pun intended), he's going to need a lot of time to climb back up again. I think, even if it was a little, you've still made progress in this one day... He's probably been the macho center of attention for such a long time that it's hard for him to just give in.
It's sad to know that he's going to go back to these people after you whip some sense into him. Are they definitely going to sell him after training, or is it more of a 'we want to sell him, but let's send him to training first and see what happens' type of thing?
 
#23 ·
I'm sorry but the only way you are getting anywhere is 3 or more hours to tire him out?

All you are doing is building up his endurance.

Not getting points across, just tiring him out.

I don't see this ending well.

The only thing I want to gain from laying this horse down is letting him know he doesn't always get his way and get an attitude change.

I do believe despite not getting him down I did get an attitude change from him. He did give into the hobble. just didn't get him down.
 
#25 ·
I think it sounds like you're doing a great job so far. Rome wasn't built in a day. :wink: I would not have the experience or confidence laying a horse down, so good on you for knowing how to. I bet once he figures out you're not tolerating any of his attitude, you'd be able to lay him down. Good luck and keep us updated on his progress! :)
 
#27 ·
You made progress and have learned a lot about him. Does he have awesome bloodlines to justify keeping him a stallion? They don't know how to handle a stallion & the the next buyer may not either. I would have insisted on his being gelded before training. With his attitude & being intact he is well on his way to being dangerous for many potential owners.
 
#28 ·
I know it's not your decision to geld him but I HOPE his owners will be honest about his history of aggression when selling him and screen potential buyers well.

Good luck in rehabbing this brat, don't forget that persistence beats resistance. Sounds like you made some good progress, and I bet he'll be hitting the dirt within a few more sessions.

His markings are pretty.
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#29 ·
Good luck to ya Ghostwind. Horses like this are why many trainers get burnt out and/or stop riding for the general public. Sounds like the owners have built so much resistance in this horse, it's going to take alot of persistence and a careful choice of techniques to get this accomplished without this knucklehead hurting himself. If it was me I'd probably send him home. He hurts himself and then you get a bad rap... Be careful whatever you do
 
#35 ·
How long does he stay in the other stalls vs his. What about the horses on either side - are they emitting negative energy that he's sensing. The best way to get a horse to do something is to create a situation whereby he wants to do it. This is where a person has to get creative. Here's an example. Dreaded fly spray. As long as the horse stood still while I sprayed water well to my side, he got a treat. Working in increments the spraying gradually got closer. When it barely touched his leg, he departed (he was at liberty) three or four strides, stopped, turned to face me and stood for oh, 20 seconds. I think he was trying to figure out how to get the treat. He approached me. I started again only with larger increments and within half a minute I'd sprayed him all over and gave him his treat. He could have left at any time but it was his decision to stay. Since that day he's always been easy to spray.
 
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