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Dusty and Olivia 03-13-2013 11:34 PM

New Theory New horse
 
Ihave just got a new horse that in his previous life had been horibly neglected, so we are training him from scratch with a bitless bridle( i disagree with bits) and I have decided to try out riding with out a bridle, and my new theory to train my horse into this is;
~ start riding with rope around neck as well as bridle
~start using the rope and reins in my hands
~start using rope and loose rein
~start using rope with bridle on
~take bridle off and only use the rope
Could this work, I am yet to test it and would rather have some on tell it will not work than have no control over my horse
Thank you

equitate 03-13-2013 11:43 PM

I dont see any theory with your plan. Have you rdden bitless or with a neck rope? Do you know how those methods work? And he down side. Has he been ridden/started at all? Are you going to start with in work first? Do you know the downsides of bitless (or even how they should be properly used, and why)?

There is a reason for contact vs no contact, on where a neck rope is used on the neck and why. The type of 'controls' are all different and affect balance/quality of gaits in different ways.

And why is your idea of what you want the horse to be able to do? Be a trail horse, a h/j/western/dressage???

Laffeetaffee 03-13-2013 11:53 PM

Is this something you're trying to do to make a statement about bitless bridles? Remember, riding with just a neck rope is all about the horse being in tune with the rider and listening to seat and legs. Also, be aware that the rope does not stop the horse, your seat does. I love it when I see people riding their horse effortlessly with just a neck rope and nothing else because they've put literally years of work into the horse on all aspects of training, including respect, trust, and attention to cues. If you can do it with a rescue horse, I think it'd be amazing.

Dusty and Olivia 03-13-2013 11:53 PM

Yes i know the downside for a bitless but do you know the upsides? And yes i have started with him, and yes i have ridden with a bitless and neck rope. Iknow how these methods could work. And I know how bitless bridles should properly be used, I have studied them, competed in them and even done dressage and jumping in them wothout fail, I have spent my life with bitless bridles. An i fell bitless bridles are udes because bits are harsh, and some horses can't take a bit, and I find them to lead to better horesmanship.
I do classical riding, and natural horsemanship, And when doing this method I would start at walk and see what i can do from their

Laffeetaffee 03-13-2013 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusty and Olivia (Post 1937011)
Yes i know the downside for a bitless but do you know the upsides? And yes i have started with him, and yes i have ridden with a bitless and neck rope. Iknow how these methods could work. And I know how bitless bridles should properly be used, I have studied them, competed in them and even done dressage and jumping in them wothout fail, I have spent my life with bitless bridles. An i fell bitless bridles are udes because bits are harsh, and some horses can't take a bit, and I find them to lead to better horesmanship.
I do classical riding, and natural horsemanship, And when doing this method I would start at walk and see what i can do from their

I absolutely love bitless, although I always teach horses to take a bit anyways. It's too bad a lot of shows require you to use a bit on your horse, I don't know why that rule is still around. My favorite way to ride is in a rope halter.

Dusty and Olivia 03-14-2013 12:01 AM

Yeah Rope halters are always alot of fun!

Dusty and Olivia 03-14-2013 12:09 AM

Forgot to say
The main meaning of my method is, the acceptance of the transition from bridle to neck rope, then it will be from neck rope to seat and legs, then vocal commands(which i will slowly bring in throught the whole proccess) I do know that this will take time and paitince but that is what i want to put in.

Copperhead 03-14-2013 12:38 AM

If you get your horse to travel well with only seat and leg, you won't need voice commands.

equitate 03-14-2013 12:54 AM

Riding with a neck rope is much more controlling (esp if it stiffer/higher). But it cannot allow for lateral flexibility (even with correctly place leg aids) nor longitidnal flexion. Bitless has many possibilities: hackamore being one of the strongest (and part of a vaquero traditional...ie hackamore/snaffle/spade), OR a caveson (one of the ways horses were ridden a couple of hundred years ago) which was for lateral flexibility, and then a horse was transitioned to feather light riding in curbs; OR cross under bitless (which DOES put pressure on nerve points) and is not as clear in lateral flexibility. Why do I keep talking about poisitioning the horse/lateral flexibility? Because it is a precursore to longitudinal flexion/collection.

Are bits harsh? It totally depends upon the hands which hold a bit or a bitless bridle or even a neck rope. Are the bits used as they were intended (ie vertical hh on the corners of the lips rather than the bars, in a snaffle to properly fold the hindleg joints), or lowering with the effect of a curb (NO steadily torqueing ont he bars). The piaffe to be completely refined needs that nuance. Can a fully trained horse be put into a neck rope to show off? Certainly. Can you get to the same end with it? Not imho. Good enough for some circus work? Yes. Ability to do jambette training? No. Canter pirouettes? Not in a refined way because lateral flexiblity is needed for proper alignment/straightness?

Voice commands come after a behavior, not asking before. I agree, it is unnecessary, it is more body awareness/positoning/algnment.

Imho the nuance of very subtle lateral flexion at the atlas is simply not as possible bitless or in a neck rope.

Ride and jump and have fun? Certainly.

loosie 03-14-2013 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusty and Olivia (Post 1937043)
Forgot to say
The main meaning of my method is, the acceptance of the transition from bridle to neck rope, then it will be from neck rope to seat and legs, then vocal commands(which i will slowly bring in throught the whole proccess) I do know that this will take time and paitince but that is what i want to put in.

Don't know what happened to my last response.:-x Anyway, yes, I ride with a neck rope a lot(not when out & about, for Justin). I also often will start a horse like this, after putting in the groundwork, including 'leading' the horse from beside & directing with the neck rope. Of course, you can start with a halter/bridle and 'progress' to a neck rope too.

Regarding what you've said above though, I wouldn't be 'transitioning from... to... to seat & leg aids - that is the crux of *good* riding control IMO & where I start - the horse will be well educated in yielding to various pressure before I get on & from my first time sitting on him I start reinforcing yields to seat & leg pressure. I use reins - whatever they're attached to - basically as a back up of my initial bodylanguage. I also don't tend to teach vocal cues differently or wait until other things are taught first(I'm a talker - can you tell by my writing style??:-P).


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