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-   -   Will some horses respond aggressively to a stick or whip? (http://www.horseforum.com/natural-horsemanship/will-some-horses-respond-aggressively-stick-156461/)

Horseshygranny 03-15-2013 12:30 PM

Will some horses respond aggressively to a stick or whip?
 
Being very inexperienced with horses, I'm trying to figure out our green-broke "lodger" horse. She is dominant & aggressive horse toward me.. She tries to bully me whenever I'm near her. (this is kind of a moot point as I'm having her moved to the neighbor's property when possible but I'm trying to understand this horse.) Local horse people have told me to swat her with my hiking stick or use a whip to teach her manners. I'm curious: wouldn't some horses respond very negatively to this and try to run me over?

Deschutes 03-15-2013 12:48 PM

Depends on the horse.

Some will respond aggressively strictly out of fear, others will do it if they see it as simply a subordinate "pecking" at them.

In your case, being green with a greenie who is aggressive, you are going to be in over your head.

You have a couple choices: enlist the help of a trainer, sell the horse to someone more experienced who can "fix" problem horses, put him down, or send him for sixty days training.

The choice is yours.
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DraftyAiresMum 03-15-2013 12:51 PM

A whip or stick is only supposed to be an extension of your arm. If you would hit the horse with your hand, don't hit it with the whip/stick.

A better option is to drive the horse away from you with your body language. As the horse comes toward you, make yourself appear bigger (I usually stretch my arms out to the sides) and determinedly walk toward the horse. Either yell or speak in a loud firm voice and basically tell the horse to get away from you (I say something like "Don't even think about it!" or "You want some of this?!"). Have the whip or stick in your hand and slap the ground with it to get the horse moving.

Another idea would be to have someone familiar with the horse halter her, then supervise while you groom the horse. Don't be afraid to be firm if she gets out of line.

Right now, she knows she's got the upper hand because you're afraid of her.
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DraftyAiresMum 03-15-2013 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deschutes (Post 1939109)
Depends on the horse.

Some will respond aggressively strictly out of fear, others will do it if they see it as simply a subordinate "pecking" at them.

In your case, being green with a greenie who is aggressive, you are going to be in over your head.

You have a couple choices: enlist the help of a trainer, sell the horse to someone more experienced who can "fix" problem horses, put him down, or send him for sixty days training.

The choice is yours.
Posted via Mobile Device

It's not her horse. It's a boarder's horse who is apparently loose on their property (HUGE mistake, IMPO, but whatever).
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Deschutes 03-15-2013 12:54 PM

Ooooh, my mistake. I would suggest taking Drafty's advice.
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DraftyAiresMum 03-15-2013 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DraftyAiresMum (Post 1939114)
A whip or stick is only supposed to be an extension of your arm. If you would hit the horse with your hand, don't hit it with the whip/stick.
Posted via Mobile Device

That should read "If you WOULDN'T hit the horse with your hand, don't hit it with the whip/stick."

Adding to what I already said...

You say you know dogs. Ok, so what does the alpha in a pack do when a subordinate gets out of line or gets too big for their britches? The alpha drives them away until they submit, correct? Say principal applies with horses. The lead mare of a herd will drive a subordinate away from the herd until they submit. Why does this work? Because there's safety in numbers and a horse on its own is much more vulnerable. By driving an upstart from the safety of the herd and only letting them back in when they agree to play by the rules, the lead mare is, in effect, saying "I have the power to literally feed you to the wolves. You want to stay in the safety of my herd, you have to live by my rules."

So, how does this apply to the human/horse relationship? Think of you and the horse as a herd of two (because that's how the horse sees it). Right now, the horse has the upper hand and knows she can drive you away, making you vulnerable to attack (in her mind). So what you have to do is turn the tables on her. Make it so that this little herd of two is YOUR herd and either she plays by YOUR rules, or she's the one who gets kicked out and left to the predators. Being with you and accepting your leadership should mean safety to her.
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Corporal 03-15-2013 01:37 PM

Look, I've said this before--well...written it--YOU are the same weight/size difference (more or less) to a horse as a domestic cat is to a human. IF a horse wants to he can kill you bc of his size.
Most of time our well trained horses JUST want to please us, and when they are REALLY well trained, working around them is pure joy.
It doesn't just happen.
There have always been messed up horses on the market, but the market is way down and the # of homeless horses/for sale horses is way up.
This is a BUYER's market. It's not easy to get rid of a problem horse. I have had horses since I was 27yo. I am now 55yo and I don't wanna work with one, and I know more about training than YOU do.
IF this horse hurts you while you trying to learn how to retrain him, it could be permanent and you won't get a chance to start over with a well trained horse, or at least, one with a better temperment.
Before I bought my 3--look at my pictures in my profile--I bought some stinkers, including a mule that I paid $900 for, and sold for $200
DON'T be proud. Take a $ hit and then start talking to us here to see if somebody has a decent horse you can buy, or knows or a good match for you.
I sincerely wish you well, but you are in over your head.

DraftyAiresMum 03-15-2013 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporal (Post 1939179)
Look, I've said this before--well...written it--YOU are the same weight/size difference (more or less) to a horse as a domestic cat is to a human. IF a horse wants to he can kill you bc of his size.
Most of time our well trained horses JUST want to please us, and when they are REALLY well trained, working around them is pure joy.
It doesn't just happen.
There have always been messed up horses on the market, but the market is way down and the # of homeless horses/for sale horses is way up.
This is a BUYER's market. It's not easy to get rid of a problem horse. I have had horses since I was 27yo. I am now 55yo and I don't wanna work with one, and I know more about training than YOU do.
IF this horse hurts you while you trying to learn how to retrain him, it could be permanent and you won't get a chance to start over with a well trained horse, or at least, one with a better temperment.
Before I bought my 3--look at my pictures in my profile--I bought some stinkers, including a mule that I paid $900 for, and sold for $200
DON'T be proud. Take a $ hit and then start talking to us here to see if somebody has a decent horse you can buy, or knows or a good match for you.
I sincerely wish you well, but you are in over your head.

Once again...This isn't the OP's horse, it's a boarder's horse that is left loose on the OP's property. She has no control over the horse's training, she is merely trying to keep herself safe while the horse is at her property.
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Corporal 03-15-2013 02:02 PM

Sorry.
She can print out all of our answers and leave them in an envelope for the horse's owner, anonymously.
I would always use the whip on the other side of the fence and make sure this horse never even THINKS about getting near me.

DraftyAiresMum 03-15-2013 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporal (Post 1939220)
Sorry.
She can print out all of our answers and leave them in an envelope for the horse's owner, anonymously.
I would always use the whip on the other side of the fence and make sure this horse never even THINKS about getting near me.

From the other posts the OP has made, I don't think there IS a fence. It sounds like this horse is able to come right up to the door (she said on another thread that she's afraid to leave the house because the horse is out there).
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