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Horsecents1997 03-18-2013 09:21 PM

Oh, the elusive Pivot
 
I've shown several well trained horses. Everything they excelled at, except for pivots. They wouldn't stick at all, their turns were sloppy. My current horse is very smart and can turn sharply and pivot on the forehand. He does not know how to pivot regular. I was wondering how can I teach this horse how to pivot.

Also: teaching nice backing. He knows how to back, but's it's not fluid or energetic. It's slow and resistant. Any suggestions?

And on a totally different note: Are all purpose English saddles forward seat?

loosie 03-19-2013 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horsecents1997 (Post 1949089)
He does not know how to pivot regular. I was wondering how can I teach this horse how to pivot.

What does 'pivot regular' mean? The way I teach, if I want a pivot on the HQ, I move my weight back, sort of to free up their forehand and use seat & outside leg on forward(& reins if nec) to tell them to move their forehand. Opposite for forehand pivot - lean slightly forward, use outside leg back to get them to move their HQ around.

Baby steps too. Only once the basics are down pat - the horse is reliably responding to soft signals to take 1-few steps with either hind or fore & keep the other quarters in place, would I begin to ask for gradually faster or more steps/whole circle for eg. Think of a good pivot as the 'university' goal, but you've got to work up to that, through kinder, primary & secondary classes.

Quote:

Also: teaching nice backing. He knows how to back, but's it's not fluid or energetic. It's slow and resistant. Any suggestions?
First ensure there's not physical reason - eg. saddle fit, locking patellas... etc - that he maybe can't do it easily. Then baby steps again. Set it up to make what you want as easy as possible for him - eg. only one step for now - and reinforce that until it's easy & reliable before asking for gradually more.

Quote:

And on a totally different note: Are all purpose English saddles forward seat?
Many saddles - of all types - are & don't allow for a well balanced seat.... or a really comfortable fit for the horse either.:-( Many saddles also sort of 'lock' the rider into a particular position. But English saddles aren't *generally* designed with this in mind IMO & good ones will allow you to be well balanced & also shaped/roomy enough to allow you to move about & change your position when so desired. I've found Balance International's website to have some great info on it re saddle design, balance, etc. I do personally disagree with their blanket opinion of Westerns or Stocks though - I don't believe they're necessarily bad any more than English types are necessarily good.

nrhareiner 03-19-2013 10:03 PM

First are you taking about a pivot under saddle which is a turn or spin? Or are you talking about a pivot in showmanship?

Either way a turn is a forward maneuver. So you need to keep your horse moving forward. Once you loose that you loose the turn. You can start in many ways but you MUST have totel control of every part of your horses body. Once you have one of the ways to teach a turn is getting your horse to walk in a circle and them make that circle smaller and smaller until the horse crosses over in the front then push him out of the turn. This gets the horse crossing over and moving off the rear end. Keep doing this. Once the horse gets the idea of crossing over in front then add anouther step in the front and again push the horse out of the turn.

Horsecents1997 03-21-2013 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nrhareiner (Post 1963322)
First are you taking about a pivot under saddle which is a turn or spin? Or are you talking about a pivot in showmanship?


Showmanship. I was meaning on the ground. Backing on the ground as well

Horsecents1997 03-21-2013 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loosie (Post 1962002)
What does 'pivot regular' mean?

I meant the hindquarters:-) Sorry, brain blank. I couldn't think that day at all!

xxdanioo 03-21-2013 11:49 AM

When I pivot my horse in hand on the hindquarters, I teach him by walking into/towards his shoulder/neck. It's hard to explain. I like to shift his weight back, to free up the front end, and plant a back foot. So at first I would apply pressue to start backing, and then quickly move into his shoulder/neck to push him around on that planted foot.

I'm not good at explaining, but now we can do it at liberty just by me facing his neck/shoulder and walking into him- he knows to pivot so he isn't in my bubble.

To back, teach him, when you ask to back, he better move. Get after him a but more, jab him in the chest to get his attention, and after practice he'll pick up when you say back, he better wake up and back up.

Thrill Ride 03-21-2013 12:30 PM

Showmanship :) My favorite.

The way I teach my horses to do a pivot always works.
I take a dressage whip, stand by there head and start taping on their neck and walk towards them. They key is to make sure they step over the other leg, not go under. Rock them back and get them to sit more on their hindquarters which will help with not moving that back leg. I also sometimes take my thumb and push their shoulders away. But doing the first trick with the dressage whip and walking towards them helps a lot in the show ring because its a que when you walk towards then they need to pivot.

I would also recommend making them square up when teaching it.


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