The Horse Forum

The Horse Forum (/)
-   Hoof Care (http://www.horseforum.com/hoof-care/)
-   -   Horse needs hoof help (http://www.horseforum.com/hoof-care/horse-needs-hoof-help-176033/)

walkinthewalk 04-16-2013 10:41 AM

Horse needs hoof help
 
not my horse, she belongs to a friend who may be likely dealing with a metabolic horse.

Horses story:

1. Owner is highy suspicious of metabolic problems even though her local vet, says "no".

2. I don't have pics of the tops of the hooves but when they were posted on another forum, the fronts were slightly dished and appeared to have some degree of founder.

The front hooves are sore and responded very well to home made lily pads and boots. The owner sent me before booting and after booting videos and Whitey was moving a lot more fluid and relaxed after she put the partial pads and boots on him.

Because a vet isn't able to be involved (keep reading), I suggested putting a less thick pad under the hooves. The owner had 3/8" thick padding; along with putting boots on him, it the comfort level difference was amazing in a good way.

2.1 Local vet, just out of vet school, does not have portable or otherwise x-ray, so the Owner has to wait until early May for the traveling vet who does have an x-ray machine.

2.1.1 Owner lives in a fairly remote area that still has twelve inches of snow/mud/and more bad weather coming. Meaning, hauling the horse 80 miles to the vet with the x-ray machine isn't happening.

3. Owner is a diligent caregiver and, to the expert trimmers & farriers on this forum, did used to trim her minis when she had them. So she is ready, willing, and able to take instruction.

3.1 You should all be proud of yourselves because you, hoof caregivers, are the reason I insisted she joing this forum:D but alas, Management is not co-operating:-(

4. Lastly, the farrier that was doing Whitey and his stable pals' hooves is away at vet school. His father has been trimming the horses, in the interim. He's been trimming a long time but does not know a lot of the new techniques or to even recognize certain hoof health issues.

4.1 So the Owner is respectfully asking for some input and some trimming guidance. It's going to be tough, as she can only read the forum but can't do her own replying.

Until her membership is approved, she has to rely on me to do her speaking:-(

I will try my best to be prompt with her responses but I do this from a desktop, I have a cell phone but that's all it is, I don't have WiFi capability, much less internet access:hide: My current contract doesn't expire til September and Verizon won't cut me any slack on getting a new phone for next-to-nothing -- they want me to pay full price and that ain't happenin'.

I had to download her pics from her e-mail to my PC. Rather than re-loading them to Photobucket, then bringing them into HF, I loaded them directly into an HF album. That's why the pics are small but they should enlarge if you click on them.

I'm not sure when the last trim was:(

Right front
http://www.horseforum.com/members/45...-13-40809t.jpghttp://www.horseforum.com/members/45...-13-40801t.jpg


Left Front
http://www.horseforum.com/members/45...-13-40793t.jpghttp://www.horseforum.com/members/45...-13-40785t.jpghttp://www.horseforum.com/members/45...-13-40777t.jpg

I also have the rear hoof pics but I have to get back down to the barn, so I'm only posting the front hooves, which are the ones that are sore.

Ok, Hoof caregiver ladies, thoughts, please on how the owner should proceed with trimming, at least until the vet with x-ray machine gets to her house in early May.

I can get pics of the tops of the hooves off the other forum, If I have to; I know that would be ok with the Owner. I won't post the videos without her permission, however:-)

I really appreciate your help:D

walkinthewalk 04-16-2013 05:45 PM

<sigh> the "edit" feature disappears after a time so:

#2. Pads are not 3/8", they are 5/8".

#2.1.1 I had the 80 miles correct but it was for the "local" vet, not the vet with X-ray machine:shock::shock:

To correct that, from the owner:

Quote:

I would LOVE to haul him 80 mile to a vet with an xray machine, however, the vet with the xray machine is a 6 hour drive one way. The 80 mile vet is my regular vet, and the ONLY one in ths district. That is the NEAREST vet to me, and they have NO portable xray equip. and no large animal facilities. ----I would have had him there as soon as I found this out, if it was only 80 miles. :-)


Missy May 04-17-2013 12:30 AM

I am not an expert, so I will just fill in the silence until one pops in. The bulbs on the right front appear swollen. I think it would help experts to have a photo of her standing on those heels. The material around the apex of the frog looks worse (the way it looks as if the bar is progressing forward) in the left. Her (whitey is a she?), right front heel looks longer than the other. I would guess there is something imbalanced whether due to just the feet or the way she travels, and balance should be a focus. The bars in general on on their way to really laying over, I would address that. The left front collateral grooves look dark, whether by thrush or just freshly picked out pooh?
From the pics, there is a bit more distance between the apex of the frog and the toe than I would want to see. I would, as part of the eventual trim, definitely bevel the toe (as well as the rest of the trimmed wall) pretty well in an effort to take the stress off.

Whatever the cause of the pain - I would put pain management first and foremost and put boots, pads (whatever makes her comfy) on her until I had a well reason trimming/treatment plan - even if that is only a day. Pain is very stressful, and it can throw everything off, metabolism, resistance, etc.,.

walkinthewalk 04-17-2013 05:44 PM

Missy May, thank you for your input:-)

The Horse been on bute for about ten days, so she cut his dosage to once daily because she's worried about ulcers.

She said he seemed more sore this AM:-(

I'm pretty sure she put the horse back on two doses daily but I haven't "talked" to her since very early this AM.

I think she's been able to keep in e-mail contact with the vet who is six hours away and will be at her farm the first week of May.

This thread has had a big bunch of hits. To those that might still be reading:

If there's a take-away message here it is don't ever take for granted when your vet only lives 20 miles from your horse and don't spit too much when he/she charges a $40 - $60 road fee.

I've known folks to live in areas where good vets and farriers are at a premium but, Whitey's owner lives where even medium quality options are slim and none.

When the closest local vet is 80 miles away and sucks, you're pretty much holding your breath nothing life-threatening happens at any time much less at midnight:cry:

Iseul 04-17-2013 05:55 PM

I'm not experiences with the type of issues you've described. But, I do know what a hoof should look like.

My input is:
There is SOMETHING wrong with that white line..I'm not positive what it is, but I'd check out white line disease..not sure if they're just stretched wayyy out and filthy or what.
From the last pic, it kind of looks like the heel may be slightly underrun, which is definitely not ideal.
The heel bulbs do look swollen, like previously said. Though, I couldn't tell you what that means..lol

If you can get better pictures I can probably add a bit more input, but that's all I can tell from these pictures.
Posted via Mobile Device

Saddlebag 04-17-2013 06:20 PM

Bute is not a drug to be taken lightly. She should reduce his dosage for a few days then stop unless the vet has advised otherwise. It doesn't seem fair but while helping with one problem it can create another. The toes are way too long and that is why the dishing. This causes hoof stress. Think doing a hand stand with inordinately long fingernails - ouch. Don't assume the father hasn't kept up. I am sure there have been many discussions over trimmimg shoeing practices. Can you post pics from the side?

waresbear 04-17-2013 06:55 PM

The heels look underslung to the point where it is putting pressure on the bulbs and the toes are long as well. I have never had to ever deal with thrush (knock on wood, going on 5 decades too!), but those frogs looks yukky for lack of a better term!

walkinthewalk 04-17-2013 07:26 PM

Yes, everyone that's seen the pics agrees the heels are underrun.

The hooves were wet when the pics were taken so thrush or no thrush is still a ?

Regardless the Owner already has the White Lightening to soak him.

This horse, like a few others on the forum, lives in way up north where there's still a foot or so of snow, with thawing/freezing mud underneath it.

Fortunately, there is a stall where the horse is being kept 24/7 under the orders of the sucky vet who is "only" 80 miles away:-|

The owner has had horses for many years so is pretty knowledgeable but, she is in pretty much the same situation as I was last year when my horse foundered --------I had never in my life dealt with founder and the ravages it bestowes upon hooves. I was so totally lost it wasn't funny.

I finally got some great help on this forum that I feel pretty much pulled my horse back from possibly being PTS'd because he was also dealing with torn ligaments from a bad farrier.

It's why I am hoping the HF management can get this membership thing figured out, so the Owner can become a member.

She can read but I have to do the talking and, for once, I don't like that --- I don't like being the mouth piece and perhaps mis-representing the situation:?

Missy May 04-17-2013 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walkinthewalk (Post 2264985)
Yes, everyone that's seen the pics agrees the heels are underrun.

The hooves were wet when the pics were taken so thrush or no thrush is still a ?

Regardless the Owner already has the White Lightening to soak him.

This horse, like a few others on the forum, lives in way up north where there's still a foot or so of snow, with thawing/freezing mud underneath it.

Fortunately, there is a stall where the horse is being kept 24/7 under the orders of the sucky vet who is "only" 80 miles away:-|

The owner has had horses for many years so is pretty knowledgeable but, she is in pretty much the same situation as I was last year when my horse foundered --------I had never in my life dealt with founder and the ravages it bestowes upon hooves. I was so totally lost it wasn't funny.

I finally got some great help on this forum that I feel pretty much pulled my horse back from possibly being PTS'd because he was also dealing with torn ligaments from a bad farrier.

It's why I am hoping the HF management can get this membership thing figured out, so the Owner can become a member.

She can read but I have to do the talking and, for once, I don't like that --- I don't like being the mouth piece and perhaps mis-representing the situation:?

Well, I hate to mention this b/c I can't see her in person and it is cold and all, but, I have seen horses (not my own) get ouchy from various causes. In all of the cases I have seen, the pain acted as a catch-22, b/c non-movement tends to work against them. That isn't to say they need to run a race, it is to say non-movement can make things worse. Yet, until the source of the pain is addressed, she will not be able to move much, and I don't think the pain should be masked by bute and have her move around and further hurt herself...like I said, catch 22. So, yeah..it needs to be addressed.

I can see how this is a difficult situation. She needs a proper trim, and Xrays would better define what a proper trim would be..yet, you can't get xrays. If it were me (this is just me), and I could do nothing else, I would get a good and balanced trim, put old macs, or easy boots, or the like on her in an effort to releive her pain until I could get vet assistance.

The use of bute is a bit tricky, IMO. Pain "tells" you something. If I thought the "something" was addressed and they just needed it for a while during recovery, ulcers be dammed - I am giving them a small dose to take the edge off. Otherwise, I'd be reluctant to use it.

I would also ensure this horse's diet did not include any sort of "hot" feed (e.g., cob). If it were me (this is just me), I would be thinking in terms of restricting her diet to something like Laken Lite pellets until a vet is available.

walkinthewalk 04-17-2013 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missy May (Post 2265545)
Well, I hate to mention this b/c I can't see her in person and it is cold and all, but, I have seen horses (not my own) get ouchy from various causes. In all of the cases I have seen, the pain acted as a catch-22, b/c non-movement tends to work against them. That isn't to say they need to run a race, it is to say non-movement can make things worse. Yet, until the source of the pain is addressed, she will not be able to move much, and I don't think the pain should be masked by bute and have her move around and further hurt herself...like I said, catch 22. So, yeah..it needs to be addressed.

I can see how this is a difficult situation. She needs a proper trim, and Xrays would better define what a proper trim would be..yet, you can't get xrays. If it were me (this is just me), and I could do nothing else, I would get a good and balanced trim, put old macs, or easy boots, or the like on her in an effort to releive her pain until I could get vet assistance.

The use of bute is a bit tricky, IMO. Pain "tells" you something. If I thought the "something" was addressed and they just needed it for a while during recovery, ulcers be dammed - I am giving them a small dose to take the edge off. Otherwise, I'd be reluctant to use it.

I would also ensure this horse's diet did not include any sort of "hot" feed (e.g., cob). If it were me (this is just me), I would be thinking in terms of restricting her diet to something like Laken Lite pellets until a vet is available.

She has been hand walking him daily, and she is learning as fast as she can what to do about diet. I can't remember but I am reasonably sure Whitey wasn't on any sort of grains to begin with. For certain he was not eating sweet feed. Even though the feed pan stuff might be able to be tweeked, I'm pretty sure it was fairly lite because all her horses are easy keepers.

It seems hay in her area might be the issue; from what I gather, while she can get straight timothy hay, I have a feeling it's going to be a premium price. The norm in her area is a mix of timothy/alfalfa/clover and something else I didn't recognize because she is in Canada.

The Horse is in boots/half pads daily and they come off at night. The pads are 5/8", I think. I felt that 1/2" or 5/8" was a comfortable suggestion until the vet with x-ray machine can see Whitey - who is a gelding - lol.

I sent her pics of Joker's last two trims and also sent her the link to barefoothorse.com, so she can have some idea of what to be striving for.

She did used to trim her minis, so she is trying to take a correct but conservative approach while still trying to put a correct trim on Whitey until she can find someone qualified.

Her regular farrier is in vet school and his dad, Bless His Soul, is filling in but it's obvious from the above pics, he only knows a basic trim and he's made several mistakes, at that:?

Believe me, she is being harder on herself than need be. She is researching and trying to absorb everything at Mach 80 to get Whitey back on track as soon as possible.

We've done a lot of e-mailing but when it comes to the part about properly trimming Whitey's hooves, I am only offering basic advice based on what has been done with my foundered horse.

I'm plenty confident in the feed & hay department but I fall way short when it comes to rehabbing hooves and will be as anxious as the Owner for her to get some quality trimming instruction:D

Where the trimming help is concerned, I feel like I'm the Little Pig in the middle house the Big Bad Founder Wolf is trying to blow down. Somebody HAS to remember "The Three Little Pigs" fairy tale - lol lol


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:30 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0