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Sullivan17 11-19-2008 02:19 AM

Training advice "really" needed!
This is Cansino.. he's a year and a couple months old.. He's a "big" boy standing at about 14.3.. 15 hands.. He's an Arabian.. he was one of our last two baby's out of Diamond our stallion before he passed away last winter...
Anyways.. Cansino is still a Stud.. He WILL be gelded SOON!.. It's gotten WAY out of hand... He was my grandma's horse.. but she hasn't ben able to do.. ANYTHING with him so she gave him to me..
Here's the big thing.. he's not halter broke...:oops::cry:
I started working with him and i have him to the point where i can get a halter on him fine and he won't freak out on me.. but as soon as i try to put any pressure on the lead.. he just gets upset and runs away.. he's such a big boy.. and a stud.. so he's so much stronger then i am...
He was at one point leading pretty good when he was "little".. lol.. im pretty sure he hasn't forgotten it.. most horse don't forget something once they have learned it...
Im so upset about this because i know he will be an awesome horse some day..! His dad was just amazing.. 16.2 hands.. he was on the show circut but looked so out of place with all the small arabians lol..

Cansino is so much more relaxed with me then anyone else.. he's skittish of other people and doesn't like them petting him or anything.. he let's me pick up his feet.. mess with his face, ears.. all that.

We were having a small family argument over gelding him.. as my grandmother says yes, my mom and I say yes.. but my aunt who Loves him wants him to stay a stallion and put him on the track... Cansino in my eyes just doesn't have the urge to race.. but he will be gelded.. espcially since we have no use for a stud at our place.. lol
But PLEASE any help would be so greatly appriciated... I figured since the winter and snow is here... here is the best time to do it when i can't be out showing and riding all day every day lol..


Here are a couple pictures of him....

Sullivan17 11-19-2008 02:20 AM

Trust me, the barn is A LOT cleaner then it was in that last picture!!

: )

SallyRC123 11-19-2008 03:13 AM

What sort of halter are you using to train him? If it's a normal flat halter this might be making things harder - a horse can lean on this. A rope halter lets the horse yield to their own pressure, which in turn teaches them not to lean. The knots on a rope halter are also strategically placed, so this helps as well.

When you apply the pressure for him to go forwards, as soon as he looks like he's thinking about it or shows any signs of going forwards immedietly release the pressure.

Make sure he respects your personal space, a remember to be really patient with him.

Im not expert but thats just my 2 cents. Good luck, he's very cute by the way!

Midwest Paint 11-19-2008 05:49 AM

Getting the halter on is half the battle!
Which sounds great that you have accomplished that!

But the "little" guy doesnt want to lead.. LOL! Well, depending on what ideas and options you have, the rope halter is an excellent tool to teach. The tie braid on it applies the forward pressure to the polls and encourages them to move. I will say, that after reading what you have said, that you may need to try alternatives as well, as it sounds like he has much more strength then what you were anticipating and he may even break that control!

Arab's are a trick.. I hear you! It wasnt until a couple months ago, I picked one up, and its been educational! LOL! They have endurance, which leads me to my next point.. if you have a round pen, that would be an ideal place to start. If he happens to pull away from you and break the lead, he wont have anywhere to escape, then that opens you to enforcing the fact that breaking free wont get him far, which is to lunge him immediately after breaking away from you.

Another tip, is if you are pretty fast on your feet, persay, and he goes to pull away, start applying front pressure backwards and drive him back, and more then a couple steps. If I get one that pulls hard on me and trys to go backwards when I am asking him/her to go forward.. then backwards you want to go, backwards you will. They cant move as fast and dont have as much control going backwards as they do forwards. Once I get that yielding responce from them, then I let up and try forward again. This works pretty well after an attempt or two, but they will still act jerking and pull alot of stopping while under lead.

Once you make it to leading, but with jerky and sudden stops, the next trick with a larger, un-halter broke horse, since its a lot harder to convince them to move the direction you pick, I trick them (in a sense). As I am leading along, and they stop and wont move forward, but wont run off (as they lost that battle a few times already), I turn thier head just slightly and begin walking a "new" direction, which will eventually "wander" back into the original direction I originally asked. This is more or less fooling their percpetion, as they do not see things the same way we do. Where as you are asking them to go in the 12 O'clock direction, and they stop, you can redirect them to the 10 O'clock position, or even the 2 O'clock. Then start leading gradually back to the 12. I have had to "see-saw" them both directions before, but the result is the same.

Its a trick with teaching fully developed and large sized horses to lead when they have not had human interaction! I have a project I am working on with a 9 year old wild mustang that the owners cant even get haltered. It pays off big time when you accomplish getting them haltered! :wink: Hope that helps some!

DarkChylde 11-19-2008 08:59 AM

If he isn't even over 2 years old yet, he is too young for roundpenning.

Here is the thing. Horses have what is known as an 'opposition reflect'. an instinct that almost all training is seeking to overcome, to get them to give rather than resist pressure. For one thing, you either need to wait till he is gelded, or you mite could be hurt. Stallions are more headstrong than the average horse, but his balls won't make that much difference, bad behavior will continue, just not with as much fire under it. Second, you must understand WHY your horse is pulling back. In the wild, when a predator attacks, when the mountain lion sinks his claws and teeth in, if the horse pulled away the damage was greater. Horses learned to move INTO pressure, aka don't pull away from the predator but push into him, if you pull away he will tear you up more, but you can pin him and squish him. That is why when you push on an untrained horse they push back. The name for it is 'opposition reflect.' But this can be handy, if you learn to use it to your advantage. And I can validate from years of being a vet tech, that if you are bitten DON"T pull away, you will have slashes as well as puncture wounds, if you don't pull away you only have the puncture wounds.

To get the horse to go forward, do NOT pull on him. So many people think to move a horse forward they need to face him and pull. Here is what you need to do. Stand with him alongside a fence, so he will be forced when he does move to move ahead with you, and not in circles. Then, take you whip (in my case I use the leftover rope from the lead and swing it behind me, which the way I am standing will tap his/her flanks and make them start forward, simultaneously clicking. Talk to his butt if you want forward movement, talking to his head only stops him. Everytime you want him to go, be prepared to tap from behind while you are still facing forward. You mite wanna try it on an eaiser horse to practice.

Now, in order to stop, you want to put your whip stick or your arm (I use the arm since I don't work with a whip) in front of his chest, let him touch it and say 'whoa.' Most horses will stop when they feel an object blocking thier chest.

If while leading he tries to crowd you, you keep your elbow pointed out where he will jab himself if he does, and if he pushes, you push back. You MUST maintain a 'bubble' around you, particularly with a stud. Do NOT let him cross the boundry of your bubble! Swing the extra lead rope at him, keep a bristly brush handy for an uncomfortable feeling if he brushes up against you, let him meet that brush. And DON"T let his mouth even near you until you know he won't nip. Unfortunately, this means to lay off being affectionate until you have won his respect.

I am cutting my teeth on my first stud, if you need to ask any questions you can pm me as well.

I will try and post pics later to show what I mean, if you don't get it.

Best of luck! Hope this helps!

Sullivan17 11-19-2008 01:42 PM

Thanks guys!
I was just using a "regular" halter.. but when i started working with him more i was going to switch over to the Rope halter...

My plan was just to wait until he was gelded to start working with him.. but I would hate to have anyone get hurt because of him..

He doesn't act much like a stud colt at all.. we have a gelding out in the pasture and he just keeps him right in line! but yup.. he's still a stud and they're unpredictable at times so Im always watching out of the corner of my eye to make sure i know where he is..

but thanks again.. : ) If i start doing anything and have any more questions.. ill be sure to ask! lol

Dumas'_Grrrl 11-19-2008 02:53 PM

Not everyone will agree with me but I have seen this done and it works like a charm.

I agree, getting the halter ON is indeed half the battle, so you're off to a good start.

IMO part of halter breaking is getting the horse to stop fearing the pressure on the halter.

One way I like to do that is to put the horse in a round pen or other smaller safe pen and leave the halter on (web is fine) with a good stiff lead rope attached. ( I prefer to use about 8' of lariat rope. The stiff rope will keep it from getting entangled in the horse's legs or around posts.) The horse will naturally step on the rope and get his head "taken away" from him. No one will be pulling on the rope, No one in the pen to blame but himself. It won't take too long maybe a couple days, for the horse to realize that it's no big deal, relax, accept the pressure, don't spook at the pressure etc. During that couple days (more if needed) you can go into the pen. Pick up the lead and gently turn the horse with it. If he should pull on the lead, let him at first, he's still learing, let the rope slide through your hands but don't let it go right away. You're just teaching him that someone will be on the other end of that thing eventually.

Once the horse no longer fears the pressure but learns to give to it...You can begin on walking circles and figure 8's in the pen. Once he's got that down, move on to things outside the pen. Walking in a straight line is sometimes harder than a circle.

IMO letting the horse learn for himself is great for the horse. He doesn't resent you and you haven't made a foggy lesson...He's figured it out all on his own.

Hope this made sense for ya. Good luck, He sure is a looker.

Sullivan17 11-20-2008 08:16 PM

Just wanted to say that i worked with Cansino!!!

Today we had someone coming out to look at his mom since she "was" for sale.. so i just grabbed him.. I slid the halter on him(he didn't mind.. at ALL) and then tried to lead him.. he refused for a little bit.. head in the air... back up.. but then he started taking baby steps and when he would do what i asked i praised him and rubbed on him.. but time we were done.. he acted like he had ben doing this forever!!.. Now all i have to do is apply a little pressure and he turns and walks with you.. it was amazing! Im so happy!! All i could keep doing is smiling all day long after wards.. The people who came to look at him didn't even realize he was a stud colt.. they even wanted to buy him.. but after today.. i think he's gonna be an awesome horse..

: )

Thank you for all your suggestions!!.. You gave me the courage to get out there and work with him and try new things.. Im glad i did!!

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