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TBforever 04-21-2013 09:38 PM

going thru with threat
how do you tell if the horse will go thru with the threat, like miover when lunging, he pins ears back and comes at u and turns at last minute,

i am well aware of my faults in this as i am only learning to longe aswel, which ive stopped doing as it doesnt help when we both dont know what to do lol

but how do u tell if they will go thru with it?

tinyliny 04-21-2013 10:42 PM

I didn't have time to watch it all (will do so later) but right away I can see that this horse has NO respect for you. That time he came in toward you would have really scared me. But, I would have had that whip right in front of me, at his face and if got within range of me hitting him, I'd have whopped him so hard he'd never do that again.

that whip is too flimsy, for one thing. Get a firmer whip that can transmit some strength.

When you bring him out to the grass you start right then and there; you do not allow him to eat. He must stand quietly , 6 to 8 feet away from you while you prepare the line. if he starts to eat, you stop that pronto! YOu do not allow him to leave you mentally and go off to eating while you fuss with the line. IF you cannot do both, then do the "you stand where I say" and jettison lunging him.

When he is lunging, start right off with getting a quality movement. so, if you said "walk" and he shambles along, then you put the whip to the ground good and hard, make a ruckus, and get him to smarten up!

He'll jump, or pin his ears, or maby move toward you. ONE step toward you and explode at him. Don't be wishy washy. He is acting in a very insulting and threatening way. You are just getting in HIS way, and soon enouhgh he'll do something to get you out of his way.

Lastly, NEVER back up. you were backing your feet multiple times. IF you must back up to save your life, then, so be it. But, first , before you back away, you make HIM back away. think of having a forcefield around you, if he gets too close, you let him know ti. and don't wait until you can barely raise up the whip because he is so near he has pushed your "arm" back into you. As far as that whip can reach? that's the outer edge of your forcefield. the instant he breaks that barrrier, zap him!

do this a few times and you'll have a much more "yes ma'am" horse.

~*~anebel~*~ 04-21-2013 10:43 PM

A couple things just safety wise. Do not let the line drag on the ground and do not let the horse turn and walk towards you when you stop him. As well a good pair of gloves are a must.
It's good that you aren't lunging him anymore because it's honestly a disaster waiting to happen. If he gets that line tangled and trips it's at best a rope burn and at worst a broken neck. And I've seen a rope burn get infected and kill a horse.

As far as the running in towards you, from the beginning of the video it's evident that the horse is lunging you and not the other way around. Stand in one place, the horse moves around you and the line should be taught at all times. When you ask the horse to halt, he should wait for you, perpendicular to your line and wait for you to approach him, not the other way around. The horse is invading your space and dictating where and when he would like to be in the circle.

An experienced trainer is going to be your best bet, and lots of lessons.

Good luck!

hemms 04-21-2013 10:59 PM

Not going to lie, I only bothered with 2 mins of your vid.

My gut reaction to your question was "Wth is a horse even DOING threatening a person??"

As soon as the vid opened, I could see major issues. Your hirse is screaming disrespect before you even send him moving. Imo, his/her perceived image of you starts the second you enter his/her space. What I see is an unprepared, scattered person not for one milisecond commanding focus, let alone respect.

I linge for two different reasons. A flight check to spot any lameness and establish focus, which I'm always prepared to get NOW. And with a lesson in mind. I'm a very ritualistic handler. I believe animals (and children) benefit from the structure. I tie my horse or stand him at the fence while I cange out my lead for lunge. I properly gather my lunge and whip before walking off to my established lunge spot of that moment. My horses move off the instant I ask them, with polite energy and under control. Simply raising my stick off ghe ground increases their energy. If I have to snap that whip, I'm at the offended point, lol.

If I had your horse in my hands, I'd approach it the same way. Very clear cues to send him out (I point with my lunge-holdong hand & roll the string of my whip of the ground, toward the hip). If he did not step off NOW, I'd roll that whip a second time, high off the ground and HARD on the ass. Normally, I wouldn't be this aggressive with a new horse, but his teenager 'tude toward you has riled me, lol. If he's any kind of reasonable horse, this will have gained his attention enough that you need not repeat it more than once or twice more in the sesdion.

Re his charging/threatening behaviour, I save my voice for just this kind of thing. Twist that bum toward me and I'll growl and crack you on that ass again. Twist that front end off the circle toward me and I'll definitely get loud and mean with that whip. Lay your ears at me, and you'll move out faster. Head twisting or tossing equates moving out harder. Ignoring my whip cues gains you an attention-getting crack. Being a good, polite horse elicits my crooning voice and praise. I also never drill a well behaved horse into boredom. Even if I'm lunging for exercise, I change it up with poles, ditch lunging, anything to engage the mind and keep the wheels turning.

The whip is always between me and the offending part of them. For this reason, I prefer the NH "carrot sticks". String for fine-point articulation, and hard fiberglass stick for defending myself.

Requiring a horse to behave civilly on the lunge isn't asking a lot. Any horse I don't feel safe around is meat-truck worthy, in the current market. Jmo.

Sorry for the opinionated novel, but I hate to see things so on the cusp... Could go hard either way and I'm hoping for you and your friend to find your route to a good relationship.
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Fargosgirl 04-21-2013 11:05 PM

IMHO, horses never make idle threats. If they are threatening, they have every intention of following through and will not feel the slightest remorse. Take this behavior seriously.

Phly 04-21-2013 11:12 PM

I unfortunately suffered through the whole thing, all I can say is, it gets worse.
For one and foremost, crappy music covers what we could hear as your cues. I do believe your horse knows how to lounge and be good, from what I seen, you're confusing him. Your leading arm in, is one issue. When you crack the whip, he changes direction? And FAST! But I don't see or obviously here a cue to change direction or you ask for speed. Then there's times where he freely walks up to you. And you give loving. Hmm what did he do to earn that? Let alone on his own choice. You should ask him to approach you and be able to stop anywhere in between.
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nvr2many 04-21-2013 11:37 PM

I also watched the whole thing, minus sound (hubby is sleeping) and all I can say is, YOU ARE GOING TO GET HURT! I would never ever let a horse get away with that crap and never ever turn your back or bend over (off guard) with a horse that obviously wants to hurt you and has no respect for you at all! If you want to do that right you have to get tough, make him work and work some more! It was just really hard to watch. I am sorry. Good luck.

apachiedragon 04-21-2013 11:59 PM

You should never lunge without a specific purpose or end goal in your mind. Lunging the way you were doing it was letting the horse run endless circles around you without learning anything. The only thing that will accomplish is a fitter horse with the same manners you started with, and his are not good.

What this horse needs is not endless circles, it's respect, as others have stated. If you intend to lunge him, you should decide, for example, that he is going to do "x" amount of laps at a proper speed and distance from you, and then stop when told. If he doesn't, you have to be prepared to correct and adjust, meaning back him down if he comes toward you, reverse him or shut him down if he speeds up, etc. But don't just do endless and pointless laps because lunging was something you have been told you should do with him.

My advice would be to let someone experienced work with him in a round pen, preferably at liberty, since the line itself can send confusing messages if not handled properly, and demand the respect he should be showing, and then teach you how to do the same. Barring that, I would advise doing a LOT more groundwork with him before attempting to lunge, and not give him an inch when you ask for something. You are not showing enough confidence to be his leader, and he knows it.

clairegillies 04-22-2013 03:18 AM

tbforever, it might be an idea to find out if there is a natural horsemanship trainer or Parelli professional in you area that could come and help you. one of the best training over the internet sites is Quantum Savvy as they will give you tips from your video to help you. they do a lot of groundwork stuff in their level one.


TBforever 04-22-2013 03:20 AM

he is abit better now this was a while back, we longed today and he turned on command,, stopped on comand (which he has no problems with), he backs up, still with encouragement of tap on chest, he can side pass, he walks beside me, alot of the time if he doesnt want to work he chucks a stinka, hes good under saddle,,

i backed off alot, when he first pinned ears, as i was home alone, i got someone to longe today, he played up abit but with dominance back at him he was fine which gave me confidence

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