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-   -   Join-up question (http://www.horseforum.com/natural-horsemanship/join-up-question-180825/)

Tobysthebesthorseever 04-23-2013 08:44 PM

Join-up question
 
So I haven't actually tried join-up, as my trainer told me not to (and I don't really know how...:lol:)
She told me not to, because the last time someone tried join-up with my horse in her round-pen, he tried to jump the 5-foot fence, didn't clear it, got tangled in it, and ended up with three legs in the fence or something, and one on the ground. I didn't see it, but that's what I've heard. My question is: why? Why didn't he want to join-up?! I think it was my trainer's teenage son trying it, possibly with an older man too. They were probably doing it correctly. Should I try it, or should I take her advice and bond with him somehow else?

Tobysthebesthorseever 04-23-2013 08:45 PM

Oh, and he completely demolished her round pen in the process :/

EquineBovine 04-23-2013 09:05 PM

Holy heck! I've never heard of a horse completely flipping out during join up! Maybe the person was pushing too hard or not asking the right things and more than likely didnt have a bloody clue what they were doing?!
Any one else want to chime in?

Phly 04-23-2013 09:15 PM

What's the term join up mean? I've seen it mentioned here, but only here. I suppose I could check the interweb.
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oh vair oh 04-23-2013 09:28 PM

I've seen unhandled/mishandled broncs try and jump out of the round pens before. It's good of your trainer to tell you not to do it if you have no experience, because it seems like an inexperienced person might have gotten into this mess in the first place.

Some horses will "run themselves stupid" and get hurt because they are reacting blindly.

I usually employ "longing for respect" in the round pen several days before I do join-up, just because I can judge the temperament of the horse. I can also encourage his head to be tipped to the inside. Many NH types will use the lasso as a war bridle during join-up on particularly rough stock to keep them from running stupid.

When you longe for respect, you are asking your horse to send and yield his hindquarters with the aid of the line. So the horse knows the gist of your body language and you can ask for your horse's focus manually. I did this with my yearling and after did join-up, and it significantly shortened the time I spent sending her (because I did not want to hurt her young legs, as join-up can be very vigorous on horses). Now, halterless, she trots large circles around me, small circles around me, and yields her hindquarters quite lovely and no "running stupid" in the process.

tinyliny 04-23-2013 09:46 PM

Likely too much pressure and no way out. You gotta give a horse a way out, or they go UP.

Tobysthebesthorseever 04-24-2013 06:40 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Okay thanks for the advice guys!!! :happydance:
From what you guys say, I should not try join-up till I'm more experienced, and I'll take that advice, as I REALLY do no want to repeat that!!!
I just don't get why he flipped out!!! The were *probably* doing it correctly. Maybe it was because there were two ppl? Or maybe the round pen was too small? I mean, Toby was already a trained horse at this point. Do you suppose that that had anything to do with it?? He's such a gentle boy most of the time...

Well anyways...thanks so much!!! And I must also add: ILOVEHORSEFORUM!!!! Hehe as you can probably tell, I haven't been on here long...
I still haven't figured out how to post more than one pic at a time...:offtopic:

Thanks!!!

Tobysthebesthorseever 04-24-2013 06:44 AM

[QUOTE=oh vair oh;2325617

I usually employ "longing for respect" in the round pen several days before I do join-up, just because I can judge the temperament of the horse. I can also encourage his head to be tipped to the inside. Many NH types will use the lasso as a war bridle during join-up on particularly rough stock to keep them from running stupid.

When you longe for respect, you are asking your horse to send and yield his hindquarters with the aid of the line. So the horse knows the gist of your body language and you can ask for your horse's focus manually. I did this with my yearling and after did join-up, and it significantly shortened the time I spent sending her (because I did not want to hurt her young legs, as join-up can be very vigorous on horses). Now, halterless, she trots large circles around me, small circles around me, and yields her hindquarters quite lovely and no "running stupid" in the process.[/QUOTE]


So is "longing for respect" kinda like join-up with a rope? I've never heard of it before....sounds cool though!!

Cherie 04-24-2013 10:07 AM

Horses bail out of round pens for a couple of different reasons.

1) They are new to a place and just want out of there; or they just want their herd back. Some horses (especially new horses) climb out of stalls or pens for the same reason if the pen is not high enough and strong enough to hold a horse that really wants out.

2) Someone is putting waaay to much pressure on a horse or putting pressure on them at the wrong time.

We always start new horses out on a rope so we can control the horse and keep its attention on us. With a rope, we can shorten the rope or pull a horse around hard to face us any time it takes its attention off of us.

Nothing is gained by a horse running frantically around and around wanting out of the pen and/or wanting to go back to its herd. A reactive horse is never learning anything positive. They learn a lot more being tied up and learning to stand when they want to be somewhere else or want their herd or buddy.

I would wonder if your trainer really understands horse behavior. When a horse does something that we do not understand, it is time to sit back and analyze exactly what happened and why it happened. This is VERY important. You cannot train a horse very effectively until you understand why a horse does what it does and how we can make it come out right. We need to learn how to get a proper RESPONSE instead of a bad REACTION. One must always be able to determine the difference between response and reaction and must learn how to get the first instead of the latter.

Dustbunny 04-24-2013 11:53 AM

If he was already a trained horse why were they doing this? It seems like this is something done early in training, before saddling and riding. Unless the horse could not be caught or there is an issue making the handler go back to Horse Basics 101 and start retraining.. Whatever, he was in a panic about something.
I hope he is safe for you to handle.


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