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Horse trainer/owner of the year award goes too...

7K views 67 replies 26 participants last post by  Light 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
This woman right here.... wow, I can get a little rough with a horse if need be but this is boiling my blood!!

:evil::evil::evil::evil:


These are her lounging skills:


More lounging skills... on the line this time


yep.... smacking him in the face will SURELY make him pay attention


Rip his jaw off, that should make him pay attention.

I love in this one how she makes a comment about him going to the meat market. I'm sure that horse is thinking "Load me up right now, what are you waiting for?"

Man, I hope he kicks her teeth out one day.

.... now who's gonna send their horse over there? Any takers?
 
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#12 ·
I think posting in order to tears someone else's method of trainer apart is wrong, for example Parelli. Different strokes for different folks, its really not a matter of right and wrong, just preferences. This video on the other hand I'm sure everyone agrees that this poor horse is confused and probably pretty scared and the owner/trainer is pretty much a psycho. It's not a video of a person making an honest mistake, because we all have whacked or pulled a little to hard or given them the wrong cues or got fed up with behavior. But this... It's pretty extreme. And what I think is sad that she publicises (sp?) this behavior as she obviously doesn't see anything wrong with it.
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#7 · (Edited)
the lunging irritates me, I have never popped a horse with a whip unless I felt like the horse was threatening me, even then it was a little pop on the rump if she turned her rear to me, or on the chest or lightly on the nose if she came to charge. this lade, irritating. The poor guy seems like he isn't even ready to be lunged on a long line. she's in a very public area, and if the horse can't focus, she shouldn't be trying to make him work but instead getting him used to his surroundings, which you can tell he is definitely not used to.
 
#8 ·
....I hope that horse kicks her head in...I'm not a violent person, but when it comes to animals, mistreat them and you will NEVER have my respect and my respect is easy thing to earn and a hard thing to lose
 
#10 ·
If any admin sees a problem with the thread please delete it. Sorry, I just say these last night and I was really irritated. I could probably show you thousands of bad horsemanship/training videos.... But seriously, I think this was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. What irritates me most is that she obviously isn't shy about sharing her training "skills" and that this clearly isn't a "once in a while" occurrence.
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#15 ·
I would say all these actions independently are not abusive but all these over and over again... Then I think your running into a problem. Would you put the care of your horse in the hands of this woman? I don't think I'd even let her lead my mare.
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#17 ·
I think this video is good to be posted for those who are just getting starting working with their horse. This shows you what NOT to do. And it's good to be clear on that and see what the wrong way is, along with what the right way is. It's just a shame this beautiful horse had to suffer for it.
 
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#19 ·
I was really bothered with the lunging video, and the other one there she took the whip and repeatedly cracked him across the face and said "PAY ATTENTION" He's a young unbroke horse. When she stood still he would get bored and start looking around then she would whack him in the face.. How about keeping his attention by actually working with him.. he was pretty too.. Waste of a good horse.

And the lunging video the way she was whipping the tar out of him. He had no clue what she wanted he just wanted to get the heck out of there... I would too!!!!
 
#20 ·
That woman is making that horse crazy!! Shes popping him untill he kicks out at her then she quits popping him-- good job teaching him kicking is okay when being lunged!


I dont see why she would need to keep popping when alls you got to do is stand there. She is lazy and doesnt know what shes doing. Im all for people watching a training dvd and doing what theyve seen- but im sure those videos are for people that know how to train already and are giving another way to do things.


This is what happens when someone that is clueless about training watches a 1000 dollar dvd and tries to mimic what theyve seen..


Oh shes gonna get hurt bad- its just a matter of when..
 
#22 ·
He looks like such a sweet, willing , happy horse, this just makes me crazy.
She just arbetrarily hits him and the horse has no idea why.
One time she hits on the rump, next on the shoulder, on the leg, the belly, the neck, and God forbid the face.
She has no idea of pressure and release. She isn't even paying attention, and she expects that horse to. Also that horse was probably just taken out of his stall, and given no time to play around and explore the new ring, smell some poop or check out that wet spot.
To the poster that said nothing is wrong with this style of training... Look again, after you see someone who knows what they are doing.

So many things were just wrong!
 
#25 ·
I also think we should see videos of this because its a perfect example of why there are so many lovely horses ending up in slaughter yards and why Forums like this one are overflowing with people who've bought a pretty horse and then cant do a thing with it -
Well this lady is one of the causes folks
That poor horse has been given no clear direction, it doesn't have a clue whats being asked off it then it gets whipped at and treated like crap because of it. Shes using lunging as a a means to just wear the horse out not educate it
All I can say is - Watch and learn how not to do it - unless you want to end up with a ruined horse
 
#26 ·
I only watched the first video. It's all I could stomach. That isn't training, it's terrorizing a horse until all it wants is to escape. Once the horse is in that frame of mind, it won't learn anything. In the very first lap around, he pauses at the wet spot because it startled him, and she whacked him across the butt with the whip. No warning, no building of pressure, just WHAM. And then it just goes downhill from there. She is swinging the whip around with both hands as hard as she can, making contact as MUCH as she can, for no reason, and the horse ends up in panic mode, kicking out as a defense. And she acts as though its a joke. No, there is definitely no training happening here.
 
#28 · (Edited by Moderator)
I only watched the first video. It's all I could stomach. That isn't training, it's terrorizing a horse until all it wants is to escape. Once the horse is in that frame of mind, it won't learn anything. In the very first lap around, he pauses at the wet spot because it startled him, and she whacked him across the butt with the whip. No warning, no building of pressure, just WHAM. And then it just goes downhill from there. She is swinging the whip around with both hands as hard as she can, making contact as MUCH as she can, for no reason, and the horse ends up in panic mode, kicking out as a defense. And she acts as though its a joke. No, there is definitely no training happening here.
I could not watch more then half of the first one either and don't need to see anymore. This person has NO concept of working with a horse. I see that one of our MODs has posted and agrees.

The horse will be/is ruined. So sad.
 
#27 ·
Ok, so I get to add my critique. I am not going to go back and watch the videos and pick out details. I haven't the time. But, the horse is driven to a kind of madness because the trainer gives him NOWHERE to have relief from the pressure. In the round pen , the pressure is applied pretty randomly, never letting the horse just go forward, once told to. She keeps getting in front of the horse, so telling it to go forward, but then blocking him from doing what she told him to do, then punishing him with the whip when he slows or suddenly turns. The horse cannot figure out what the trainer wants,so he gets more and more revved up. He is whipped even when he is doing what he thinks she wants him to do, thus he kicks out at her.

She corrected him with the whip to his face and chest when he got too close, in the last video, but she herself pulled him up onto her. She should give him a bit more line, send him away from her, either with a wiggle of the line or with body language, or lastly, with vibrating the whip (not hitting). sent him away and have him stand off from her, and when he does, reward him with some rest from the pressure.

there needs to be a clear distinction between when the handler is asking for something, and when the horse is enjoying the reward for complying. This trainer completely forgets to reward the horse. The horse is desperate for a place to find relief. If she never offers this, the horse will become so desperate, kind of "hopeless", that it will strike out and become aggressive , or mentally shut down.

It's as if a mother tried to parent her children by carrying around a bull horn and shouting at them full blast, non'stop. soon enough, the kids will be numbed or crazed, or both.
 
#29 ·
The example of 'training' was mindless and detached on behalf of the 'trainer'....therefore a very detached mindless horse - a classic case of you get out what you put in. Meh.
 
#30 ·
If this is a horse she doesn't know then by her keeping him bent and yielding his hindquarters keeps him from bucking. This is how to diffuse it while the horse may be thinking about it. She doesn't know if he will suddenly explode if she allows him more rein. It can happen in a flash. The goal is to get thro the ride with no bucking.
 
#31 ·
you mean the riding video, right? That was the least ugly of the videos. Yes, she has it circling to prevent that, but really, if she has that much trouble, she shouldn't be mounting up . It barely stood still for her to mount, and when it did, you could see that it had a lot of anxiety stuffed down inside. A good trainer will see that and say, "that's our sticky spot, we work on this until it's GOOD. then we quit for the day. "
You don't get on a horse that is that stuffed down inside, and then say, well, i'll just keep him cranked around in a circle the whole time since he might buck on me.

Again, even if the hrose didn't have the anxiety shown at mount up, if you circle a horse like that, you must allow them a reward; a place to go to when they've done the right thing. if they have that, they will soon seek out that place and they'll start WANTING to do the right thing. Right now, the horse is treated the same whether he complies or doesnt. So tell me why he should comply?
 
#32 ·
I agree, tiny. If you never give a horse an out for doing well, sooner or later he is going to MAKE an out, and usually the handler will be on the loosing end of that battle. You don't push until you get an explosion just to see how far you can go.

That horse is a trainwreck waiting to happen because the handlers have pushed him to that point. I am glad to see she's trying to sell him (his ad was in another thread), but at this point, he's quite possibly damaged enough that an everyday horse owner shouldn't try to take him on, and an experienced trainer likely won't want to clean up the mess, so where does that leave the poor horse? Hopefully he doesn't slip through the cracks, he's a beautiful boy.
 
#33 ·
ive given miover a pop with the whip on the butt, but he also threatens to charge, should i just let him charge me? if its so wrong to to hit them with the whip?


really i dont see why u put a video on here and have people diss these people, who are we to judge? i know for sure that i am not perfect,i know ive made mistakes.

but to share a video that is not urs and have people on another site critising them without them here to defend themselves i just dont think its right, and its stuff like this thats going to be arguments, over circumstances we dont know, i just dont find this constructive on a suportive horse forum
 
#34 ·
ive given miover a pop with the whip on the butt, but he also threatens to charge, should i just let him charge me? if its so wrong to to hit them with the whip?


really i dont see why u put a video on here and have people diss these people, who are we to judge? i know for sure that i am not perfect,i know ive made mistakes.

but to share a video that is not urs and have people on another site critising them without them here to defend themselves i just dont think its right, and its stuff like this thats going to be arguments, over circumstances we dont know, i just dont find this constructive on a suportive horse forum

First question:

I absolutely WILL pop a horse on the rump, shoulder, or even the nose if he does something that needs that level of pressure. If he charged me, as you mention, I'd have the whip up there swinging, and he can choose to either run into the whip and get smacked, or not.
If I asked with my body, then with a little movement from the lunge whip and neither of these got a bit of a change out of the horse, I'd put the whip down hard, on the ground first. I don't have to hit the horse to get a change. If it IS required to hit the horse to get a change, (meaning the other, lower intensity things did NOT get a change), then I will. But the instant the horse moves out, the pressure ceases.

Pressure has to be meaningfull. it can only have meaning if it's applied, something changes , and then it's released. Horse says "Oh, so that's what gets me a reward. I'll do that the next time I feel that light pressure, 'cause I don't want to be smacked again".

If you swing the lunge whip non stop, it has no meaning any more. it become noise. Loud noise, from which the hrose must flee in a panic, and from which there is no escape, even if he does go forward (which would normally earn a hrose a reward).

Second point;

this is tough to call. We allow folks to post all kinds of videos to demonstarte some kind of technique they want to teach. Remember the ones posted on your lunging thread? those were just randomly taken off of you tube. They were being held up as examples of what to do. this is an example of what not to do.

However, as I said, if we cannot seperate a critique of the method from a dissing of the person, then the thread cannot stay.

As for you, on your thread, you have been very honest about your issues and your mistakes and have been willing to accept new ideas and guidance. Do you not think you are also learning something from THIS thread?

I anyone learning anything from this thread?
 
#35 ·
Sorry TBforever, I think someone like you, would benefit from this thread the most. Someone seeing this lounging as nothing wrong with it, needs to read the posts and then go learn how lunging is correctly done, with give and take, pressure and release, asking and receiving.
While there are several problems with this woman's lounging ability, the thing that I find the worst is the constant hitting with the whip, anywhere on the horse. The horse is going around the outside of the ring at a canter, and she just hits it again, why? If I don't know why I garantee the horse does't know why either. She just doesn't let up.
 
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