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wanderlust 12-10-2008 08:41 PM

Main differences
 
I see all the debates and such over NH and what I guess could be called "classical" training. What, exactly, is the difference. How would one school of thought deal with something over the other.

Spastic_Dove 12-10-2008 09:23 PM

Nothing.

When you get down to the core of it, NH is just working with the horse instead of trying to force it to do something.

"Natural Horsemanship Trainers" have their own ideas, gimmicks whatever just like any trainer. Parelli has horseanalities. Monty Roberts has join up.

A lot of NH people dont like martingales, tie downs, side reins, etc.
A lot of Classical Trainers will use these when appropriate.

Peronally, I think if you attempt to understand your horses pray instinct and want to form a bond and don't try to beat it into submission you are a natural horseman.

Many people think you have to follow a NH trainer.
But really...we all want a strong bond with our horse.

Curly_Horse_CMT 12-11-2008 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spastic_Dove (Post 209021)
Nothing.

When you get down to the core of it, NH is just working with the horse instead of trying to force it to do something.

"Natural Horsemanship Trainers" have their own ideas, gimmicks whatever just like any trainer. Parelli has horseanalities. Monty Roberts has join up.

A lot of NH people dont like martingales, tie downs, side reins, etc.
A lot of Classical Trainers will use these when appropriate.

Peronally, I think if you attempt to understand your horses pray instinct and want to form a bond and don't try to beat it into submission you are a natural horseman.

Many people think you have to follow a NH trainer.
But really...we all want a strong bond with our horse.

Well said...I mean, Monty Roberts didnt always want to be referred to as a "horse whisperer." I actually hate that term, but I dont hate Monty Roberts. I have seen the kind of work that he does and it is truely amazing. I am not really into Parelli, but I think he is a good person.

Spastic_Dove 12-11-2008 12:40 PM

I agreee. I am not into Parelli at all. But he is helping people with their horses, so I can't hate him as a person.

You just have to remember that all of these people are TRAINERS. They're not horsey gods and they don't have a secret cure-all. So don't hold them on some sort of pedestal. Just because trainer x says something is right, don't force it if it's not working for you and your horse =)

We Control The Chaos 12-11-2008 05:02 PM

From my understanding...

there is not a difference. it is all the same idea and is taught different ways.

Midwest Paint 12-12-2008 06:25 AM

Some things I have noticed in seeing a difference in "traditional methods" with the "natural horsemanship" methods, are approaches I guess you would say. Now terming is generic so dont hold me to it, LOL. I think it has been covered better already on that one, but as for what things I see differently, are that with the "classic or traditional" methods, they are more mechanical and involve less using the horses natural tendancies. When I first started out working with horses, there were more mechanical tools being used to get the horse to submit to the demands placed. Items I see not being used in NH, are mechanical hacks, twitches, loud bits, and even some of the more corrective hobbles. It also used to be that when it came to saddle work on a fresh horse, the saddle was put on and you go for a ride until they stopped with the bucking and rearing. The NH approach places more emphasis on working with the horse on the ground prior to "just getting on".

I appreciate this as not only is the horse more interested in learning and undergoing training, but as you get a little older your body cant take as much punishment as it did in your earlier years, LOL! Not to mention the horse fairs better and longer.

mayfieldk 12-12-2008 11:11 AM

You guys seem to be talking about 'NH and traditional'. She said classical, and I'm not sure if you mean classical in the sense of dressage-old-masters-in-France-and-Germany classical, but if you do then you guys seemed to miss it a little.

TRUE classical trainers don't use tiedowns, side-reins, etc. (If they do, then they're not 'classical', lol). They seem to have a partnership with their horse that although different from parelli, achieves many things and is more of a 'business-working realtionship'. They do a lot of work on the ground, and when it comes to true collection, it blows parelli out of the water. (Yes, I've seen Magic 'piaffe', if that's what you'd like to call it, and I've seen their 'collected' gaits.) Parelli seems to concentrate a LOT on making sure every resistance is utterly gone... to me, it feels like you are continually making your horse more like an animal and less like a partner. It searches out every resistance and nullfies it instantly (German classical riders do this too). French classical, on the other hand, doesn't systematically work and chip away at resistance. They avoid resistance and boost the horse's confidence in himself; you eventually get to the point where you have no resistance, and at the same time, a very proud animal. {Edit: I used the word 'avoid' and that's not quite right... they just deal with the resistance when it arrives but never train on that. ie, if the horse resisted the bit in the stop and rooted his nose out, they'd relax his jaw and move on instead of schooling stops. Makey the sensey?} I think parelli takes the 'proud' aspect away from the horse. Parelli horses are very content, probably very happy, but they are not proud. They are simply content and willing to do their job.

In the end, Parelli gives you a very supple, very broke horse that is great for most shows and trail riding. But if your quest is true collection, they don't really begin to touch on it. Which isn't really an issue if you're not interested in it!

For ground work though, I do tend to like the foundation parelli can lay on a horse, and my horses know the seven games (shock, gasp!). I own parelli halters and leads (through halfcircleranch.com because parelli's prices say one thing: Greedy!), and love using them on unbroke horses, babies, and re-trains.

I hope this answers your question!

Spastic_Dove 12-12-2008 05:10 PM

I think I said it on a different post but I like Parelli for the basics -- Understanding horse behavior, groundwork, whatever. I don't really think it is useful for riding. My first response wasn't really talking about Classical Dressage riders so if that is what the OP was asking, I'm sorry.

MidWest Paint: I dont follow any NH trainer, but I also disagree with using harsh bits or gadgets to try and fix a problem. I think that if you just understand horse behavior, you will see the flaw in this. This is why my first post was kind of saying how similar nh is with what most riders do.

Even if you don't follow a NH trainer, I think you can still work naturally with your horse.

And I think SOME gadgets can be really benificial to a horse. (As well as lunging which some disagree with)

Midwest Paint 12-13-2008 12:21 AM

Spastic Dove: LOL.. You didnt think I was indicating you were for any one specific trainer, do you! I dont think I even touched that one, LOL! I do agree with you about that point as well! I also agree with you on the "understanding behavior" aspect! That, IMO, is very key to an excellent resolution!

As for the classical riding, I too think that it was more terming then specific discipline, thats what I understood as well!

wanderlust 12-13-2008 12:32 AM

thanks everyone, thank you mayfield.

I had read an article on NH and just didn't get what was different. This makes it a bit more clear. I knew there had to be differences, i just didn't know what.


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