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My old lady

7K views 30 replies 8 participants last post by  savepitbulls 
#1 ·
Hello all! Just need some outside opinions on my mare. She is a 27 year old Appendix QH. I've had her since she was 15 and she was my main dressage mare up until about 4 years ago when I retired her. SHe has always bee a tough keeper but I've been able to keep the weight on and her coat always looked like glass. I wish I could post a before and after picture. This summer she went downhill really fast. She had a low-grade infection that we treated with antibiotics and she started to bounce back, but ever since then she looks OLD. (duh) I know that sounds funny for a 27 year old mare but I'm not used to seeing her like this. Her worming and vaccinations are all up to date, she is fed separately from all the other horses - with a feed bag for her grain I might add so she doesn't waste any). She is heavily blanketed in the winter. Right now she's getting (forgive me I don't know the weight so I'm referring to a 3# coffee can) 3/4 of a can of Allegra Cadence/rolled oats 3:1 mixture 2x a day. 1 cup corn oil in the mornings. 3 flakes orchard grass, 1 large flake alfalfa, 1 small flake Sudan grass 2x a day. She cleans up her grain and eats her hay throughout the day. She is also now getting 1/2 can grain mixture in the middle of the day. I just ordered AvtiVEX X for her arthritis, but jeeze I don't know how else to get this girl back into shape. I've tried rice bran, all kinds of weight gain supplements, beet pulp (she won't eat it) and other oils and so far this combination has worked the best. She acts totally normal but I'm not ready to admit defeat. There has to be SOMETHING else I can do! She needs to gain about 100 pounds.
 
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#2 ·
Horses at an older age just don't bounce back as well. =/ I have a 22 year, so I understand.

How long have you been trying to put weight on her? How long has she been on her feeding schedule?

Edit: You said you feed with a coffee can, right? The large metal ones? How many pounds of feed does it hold? And how many scoops are you feeding?
 
#3 ·
Its been about a 4 month process now. She is better but not where I'd like her to be. Her ribs finally stopped showing but her backbone and hip bones are still showing. Mainly her topline, but also the points of her shoulders. And she's too arthritic right now to excersize her at more than a walk. That's why I ordered her the ActiVEX. Bute isn't cutting it. She's been on this feed schedule for about 2 months now w/o any changes. I use the large metal coffe cans - I don't remember the weight but I'll check when I get a chance. I'd estimate that a full can holds about 4 lbs of this grain. She gets 3/4 of a can 2x a day. Plus 1/2 a can in the middle of the day. If I feed more than that at a time, she doesn't utilize it as well and I see it in her manure. I'm considering adding Fastrack or something to aid digestion but I'm not sure that would help.
 
#4 ·
You said that you have tried beet pulp, we had a 30 year old horse at our barn that was getting beetpulp twice daily (he had no teeth so could not have alfalfa) we also have a arab that stays really thin so we give him beet pulp everyday. It would be a really good idea to keep trying the beet pulp, I would put molassess in it and also add carrots, oats, apples, just add her favorite treats to the beet pulp and try giving it to her. Beet Pulp works so well, the arab also wont eat the beetpulp unless we put a ton of water in the beet pulp as well (dont worry, we do soak it). Well hope that helps.
 
#5 ·
Believe it or not, she manages to eat around the beet pulp (yes soaked) and leaves it in the bottom of the feed bag. I have no idea how she does it, but either she leaves it or she refuses to eat it at all. I mix it with everything I can think of but sh's a very picky horse. She will only eat alfalfa from a certain field. Sigh. I might try it again, but she's pretty set in her ways.
 
#7 ·
I boarded at a private stud barn a while ago that fed two full coffee cans twice a day of sweet feed. :shock: The stallions were QH and they bulked up very well; used part of the energy, gained and stored the rest as fat.

It takes time. You've successfully put some weight on her ribs! That's an accomplishment! The rest will come. If you feel that your process will be efficient over a period of time, keep doing what you are doing. If you are still interested in change, then I would consider switching feed and increasing grain. If she has difficultly digesting she will not get the nutrients she needs from the feed. There is feed especially design for sensitive seniors, even feed designed for seniors without teeth. (LMF Senior comes to mind.) There are options! This feed is much easier to digest and consume. I would also recommend walking her daily . This will help her in so many ways. It may also stimulate hunger because of the activity done. It may also work out stiffness and soreness that may be decreasing her appetite. (I trust you can judge whether walking would benefit. My horse is in severe pain when he is boxed in with no space to move. It is the quickest way to make him lame.)

As I'm sure you know, transfer feed very slowly. She seems to be a very sensitive girl. Research feed as well and the maximum amount to feed/most efficient feed. You could also look into a weight gain supplement, although I'm not sure how well they work. And as far as worming, are you absolutely sure she is worm free? Dewormers didn't cut it at one point in time and I put my critter on Strongid. It worked very well. I just don't want this girl to be over whelmed with supplements! I'd like to see a picture of her, we could watch the progress!
 
#9 ·
Yeah I agree with the walking suggestion. She goes out in the pasture with a turnout blanket when its not continuously pouring but since I live in Oregon :? she hasn't been getting out much lately. I let her wander while I clean her stall but I really don't think its enough. I'll start walking her and see if it helps. Might keep my kids busy too. I don't want to add too many supplements either - that's what sparked my original question. I know people who are adding 4 or 5 different supplements to their own horses and I just can't see how that would help her. I cringe at the thought. I've heard of the LMF but I'm not sure if it's available in this area. I'll have to do some checking. I tried Super Gain when she was really far down about 2 months ago but its not something I like to keep her on and I wasn't really impressed with the results. I usualy see better results in younger, more active horses. I rotate wormers every other month. Anthlecide is one I use, Ivermectin past is another and then I use Panacur. The vet did a fecal sample and there weren't any signs of an infestation. Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I might switch feeds over the next couple weeks and up it a little. Ill post pics as soon as I figure out how... :wink:
 
#10 ·

This is Onyx before retired her. Fat and shiny like I'm used to seeing her.

I took this one of her about 3 months ago right before we started her on antibiotics.
Now her ribs aren't showing and she has filled out a little overall. I'll try to get some more when I go out if I can remember my camera. She's hairy now though so its hard to see how she's improving unless you actually put your hands on her.
 
#17 ·
I talked to a couple different vets and some of my mentors from a long time ago. They pretty much all said its a combination of her aging and the low-grade infection that probably stresses her out. Her bloodwork is fine so its a matter or finding a different way of adding the pounds to her. THey also said I shouldn't expect her to look that way she used to. She will probably always look thin along her topline while she might end up being too heavy on her underside. I just gotta watch her really carefully and make sure that her looks don't get deceiving. Its sad though. My poor girl is finally getting old. She put it off for a long time but its catching up with her now. :(
 
#20 ·
Sorry, I've been really busy lately and haven't gotten online much. No, I haven't tried the malt beer yet. I'll see if I can remember to take some out today and see how she likes it. Hehe, I kinda just want to see the look on her face when she tastes it. :wink: She is doing better though. I took her blankets off of her a couple days ago since it was sunny for the first time in a loooong time (that's Oregon for you) and brushed her out really well. Her topline is still a little skinny looking, but she's actually carrying a lot more weight than I thought she was throughout her underside. I can barely see her ribs now and aside from a a lack of muscle, her shoulders and hips are looking much better. I started her on the arthritis supplement last week and of course she hates the apple flavor but she's getting it in a syringe every morning and that seems to be helping her move better. Now that the rain and snow have let up a bit she had been getting outside alot more lately too. FINALLY. She does have a small paddock attached to her stall, but its not enough. I will try to get some pictures with the digital camera today. She's darn hairy but her coat is healthy and she seems to be quite alert and in good spirits. She's just one of those that I will have to keep my eye on constantly. I did change her grain a bit. I was mixing with rolled oats, but I've taken those out completely and increased the amount to a full 3# can 2x a day with plain oats for "lunch". I also let her have a 50# salt block in her stall now to encourage more water consumption now that she's eating more grain. I'll see how those changes do and go from there. :D
 
#23 ·
Well the vet came out to check Onyx's teeth yesterday. In the 12 years that I've had her she has never needed them floated and he looked at her this time too and they still don't need to be floated. We talked for quite a while about her body condition and I showed him everything I've been feeding. He did a physical exam and everything seemed great until he took her temp. It was 97.4 - low. Especially considering she's double blanketed and eats constantly. So he took a fecal sample and a blood sample. He's guessing she might be anemic. I'm waiting to hear about the lab results now...

In the meantime, she's turning her nose up at the alfalfa again. Darn picky mare. I will probably end up just feeding the orchard grass and switching grain. He said she really shouldn't need any more calories than she's already getting. If she does end up being anemic I'll put her on Red Cell too. I hope that's all that's wrong. I'll post as soon as I hear.
 
#24 ·
regarding my old lady

Hi- I have problems keeping weight on one of my horses, he's into his thirties got hardly any teeth left, so I've found feeding him a senior feed-manna senior to be exact-which I soak to a mash and also add soaked alfalfa cubes,this is fed in 2 feeds per day, this has helped him gain some weight,though I know at this stage he will never be plump again-hope that helps-good luck.
 
#25 ·
The news isn't good. :( The vet thinks Onyx has a tumor on her thyroid. Her bloodwork showed high levels of calcium and pretty normal levels for everything else. Her talked with specalists from internal medicine and they thing that the tumor is the best explanation. He is coming out again on Monday to take another blood sample and test it further. If it does end up being a tumor, the only "fix" is surgery. :cry: Not only can I not afford thousands of dollars of surgery, but how can I justify putting a 27 year old mare through that kind of stress? I don't know what to do and this is what I was most afraid of.
 
#26 ·
It seems she lost a fair bit of weight before you started the antibiotics according to those pictures? Infection is a very high metabolic state and results in lots of calories being burned. The cattle I used for my PhD research got some infections and they lost heaps of weight. I had learned about this in class but it was amazing to see it in action.

Antibiotics will kill the beneficial bacteria in your horses gut leaving it less able to digest its feed especially forage. This on top of an older horses inability to digest feed efficiently anyway puts the older horse at a real disadvantge.

So your horse had 3 things going against it 1) the high metabolic rate of infection, 2) it lost its good gut bacteris so couldn't digest feed as well 3) she's older and isn't efficient at digesting feed anyway.

As everyone has been saying, this will take time and you obviously are slowly winning the battle. You could consider a probiotic to get the good bacteria working again. I have seen good results with Forco and its relatively cheap. I have heard of some people using plain yoghurt but your horse might really turn her nose up at that if she doens't like sugar beat.

As you come into spring and the weather improves she should continue to improve. If you have access to grass in the spring that will really help.

On an aside when I was a kid we have a pony with terrible arthritis we gave him Rhus Tox. Its a homeopathic treatment for artheritis and it worked a treat. I don't know of the science behind this but know we personally had good luck with it. he went from being unable to be shod behind to being shoable for another 2 years. Eventually it didn't work and we switched to bute.
 
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